On today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about embracing the journey rather than just waiting for outcome or chasing down every new idea that crosses your path.

Brandi’s week:

Brandi has been going crazy getting prepared for Design Summit which has already happened. Brandi did a color workshop which was originally going to be an hour talk but became a 2-hour talk and workshop. (which went great by the way!) Brandi also created most of the collateral for the event which was very exciting. Besides all this, Brandi also wants to write a book (or multiple books) so she signed up for the Margaret Atwood’s creative writing masterclass. And Brandi is also very close to having her Alice book cover done so be on the lookout for that.

Michelle’s week:

Michelle has had a good week, mainly she has been bingeing Orange Is the New Black. And her dog has been shedding like crazy so there has also been lots and lots of vacuuming happening as well.

Takeaways from this episode:

• If you are only focused on the idea you can lose sight of the in-between stuff and what you can learn there.

• Embrace the middle. 
• It is important to finish and follow through with ideas, but they shouldn’t be the primary focus.
• It’s not all about the next idea.
• The learning happens while you are figuring things out.
• Being endlessly curious will help you are your work evolve and grow for the better.

Brandi’s song: My Way by Mike Mains, Yacht Money

Michelle’s song: Just a Ride by Jem

https://www.patreon.com/designspeaks

If you would like to help support this fun show that we do! We can’t do it without you!

Please rate and review our podcast on iTunes and if you want to support our show please go to Patreon.com/designspeaks we would be eternally grateful! We can’t do this without YOU. You can give as much as you want. Every little bit goes to helping us keep this podcast going.

Thank you to Vesperteen for allowing us to use his song Shatter in the Night as our intro and outro music for Design Speaks 

Want to support us?

Go to Patreonand help support our podcast!

Find us on all forms of social media via @BrandiSea on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and you can email us any burning questions you want Brandi to answer on an episode at brandi@brandisea.com.

THANK YOU to the ultra-talented  Vesperteen (Colin Rigsby) for letting us use his (“Shatter in The Night”) track in every episode of Design Speaks.

TRANSCRIPTION

Brandi Sea: 00:00 Collateral is like all the auxiliary materials for the event. For the conference.

Michelle: 00:05 That’s a weird word. Collateral.

Brandi Sea: 00:07 Yeah.

Michelle: 00:08 It just sounds weird. Collateral. It sounds like something that’s like a bone in your neck or something. Oh, I damaged my collateral. In my car accident.

Intro: 00:19 Welcome to Design Speaks. This lovely podcast is brought to you by a graphic design geek and a regular human being. AKA a non-designer. We’re here to chat about music, pop culture, cool places, or basically, whatever we feel is relevant.

Brandi Sea: 00:36 Hey, I’m Brandi Sea.

Michelle: 00:37 And I’m Michelle.

Brandi Sea: 00:37 And you’re listening to episode 113 of Design Speaks.

Michelle: 00:41 On today’s episode we’re going to be talking about embracing the journey of your project rather than just waiting for the last bit, which is the outcome.

Brandi Sea: 00:52 Sounds good to me.

Michelle: 00:53 Let’s do it.

Brandi Sea: 00:54 Also I keep, I keep like having to slouch cause I’m wearing my new Blundstones and I felt like two inches on me, which is a great problem to have, but I’m like my microphones all the way down here.

Michelle: 01:04 It’s so low. Wait, how did this happen?

Brandi Sea: 01:07 Why did I grow? This the best?

Michelle: 01:08 Oh I want to grow. I need two more inches. I want to hit 5’5.

Brandi Sea: 01:12 Yeah. Same.

Michelle: 01:12 But I’m, I’m done.

Brandi Sea: 01:14 I’m like five, three and like a little bit.

Michelle: 01:16 Yeah, me too. 5’3 and three quarters.

Brandi Sea: 01:17 Like I’m 5’4.

Michelle: 01:19 Yeah. I mean.

Brandi Sea: 01:20 If I stand up really straight and stretched my neck out, I’m 5’4.

Michelle: 01:23 Rounding up says I’m 5’4.

Brandi Sea: 01:25 Yeah. Always round up.

Michelle: 01:27 Yeah, always.

Brandi Sea: 01:30 If you love this show and want to support it so we can keep making more episodes, get to our Patreon.

Michelle: 01:36 It’s https://www.patreon.com/designspeaks and you can give as little as $1 or as much as $50. You can give monthly, you can give one time, whatever you want.

Brandi Sea: 01:46 We can do this without you.

Michelle: 01:48 We can’t do this without you. So go https://www.patreon.com/designspeaks.

Michelle: 01:49 How was your week?

Brandi Sea: 01:55 Uh, my week. Let’s see. Um, I’ve been going crazy getting prepared for design summit, um, which, uh, I think by the time.

Michelle: 02:06 This airs.

Brandi Sea: 02:06 This airs.

Michelle: 02:06 It’ll have happened.

Brandi Sea: 02:08 It will have happened. But I’m doing a color workshop, which was only supposed to be an hour talk and it turned into a two-hour talk and workshop.

Michelle: 02:16 Whoa! I didn’t know that.

Brandi Sea: 02:17 Yeah. So.

Michelle: 02:18 Holy molly!

Brandi Sea: 02:18 So it’s officially like a big thing. Um, I’m really struggling with figuring out a good exercise for a color theory workshop cause I can talk all day about color theory, but like a good, um, exercise, a good workshoppy type thing for color theory. I’m like hitting brick wall.

Michelle: 02:37 I wish you can make them like make slime or something and they had to color it fun colors.

Brandi Sea: 02:42 But it’s not about color mixing.

Michelle: 02:44 But that’s goes into theory.

Brandi Sea: 02:44 That’s like a paint color theory. This is, this is not how to make colors. This is what colors mean. Does that make sense?

Michelle: 02:51 Um, yeah, it does make sense.

Brandi Sea: 02:52 Yeah. Which is why I’m having a hard time.

Michelle: 02:54 Yeah.

Michelle: 02:55 Now I’m like, let’s just do that now. Brainstorm that now.

Brandi Sea: 02:58 I do help with that, but so I’ve been working on that. I’m also creating most of the collateral, which Oh, do you know what that is?

Michelle: 03:05 No, it sounds like you’re going to need it though. I mean it’s not, it sounds like something that somebody needs.

Brandi Sea: 03:11 Collateral is like all the auxiliary materials for the event. So I’m creating a poster, got a goal, get as like a take home. Um, making like the little badges that say their name and like the like the wayfinding signs and the schedule and all the stuff for, for the conference.

Michelle: 03:30 That’s a weird word. Collateral.

Brandi Sea: 03:32 Yeah.

Michelle: 03:32 I don’t like right now.

Brandi Sea: 03:33 Collateral damage.

Michelle: 03:36 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 03:36 Or does it just sound weird?

Michelle: 03:37 It just sounds weird. Collateral. It sounds like something that’s like a bone in your neck or something. Oh, I damaged my collateral in my car accident. So.

Brandi Sea: 03:48 Oh my gosh.

Michelle: 03:49 It’s so collateral. Yeah. Weird, weird word.

Brandi Sea: 03:51 Did you think I made it up?

Michelle: 03:53 No! I’ve heard honestly.

Brandi Sea: 03:54 You’re like, I’m checking the dictionary.

Michelle: 03:55 I just wanted to see like what it meant. It means like safety. Um, let’s see. Something pledge. Just security for repayment of a loan to be forfeited in the event of a default.

Brandi Sea: 04:05 Well in that context, that’s the primary but.

Michelle: 04:09 Additional but subordinate secondary.

Brandi Sea: 04:11 Yeah. Basically additional items.

Michelle: 04:14 Additional items.

Brandi Sea: 04:15 Yeah.

Michelle: 04:15 Just say it easier.

Brandi Sea: 04:17 Sorry. This is design speak.

Michelle: 04:19 Gosh.

Brandi Sea: 04:19 I just explained what it means.

Michelle: 04:21 I know. I’m really, not you. I’m talking about like dictionary.com.

Brandi Sea: 04:24 Oh, well they have to be complicated.

Michelle: 04:27 Whatever.

Brandi Sea: 04:27 It’s our job to simplify things.

Michelle: 04:28 It’s exactly what your job is. It’s exactly collateral.

Brandi Sea: 04:33 Um, besides that, um, I dunno, I, I, I will write a book or two or three someday. And so I always have these notes going on books and um, I’m going to be, we have Kenny and I got a subscription to the masterclass thing. Um, so I signed up for the Margaret Atwood creative writing, um, masterclass. She’s the, she’s The lady, the author of um, Alias Grace and The Handmaid’s Tale and a few others.

Michelle: 04:59 Her, her promo is so good.

Brandi Sea: 05:03 It’s so good.

Michelle: 05:04 Her Promo for the masterclass, like it made me want to take the masterclass.

Brandi Sea: 05:08 Yep. I did the first lesson. It was basically just an intro, which is fine, but then we are at Barnes and Noble the other day and I was in the bargain isles, which is where I live at Barnes and Nobles, Bargain Isles. Um, and I found this really great. It was $8 on like super clearance. And for me, books are my life and it’s called the creative writer’s notebook, 20 great authors and 70 writing exercises. So for every author, it has three different writing exercises depending on the kind of, um, like depending on the kind of writer that they are. So for Ernest Hemingway, it has his theory of the iceberg where like, you only have to say he’s like the king of brevity, which, you know, brevity is right? Like only only saying what you need to say.

Michelle: 05:57 Okay.

Brandi Sea: 05:57 It’s short but clear.

Michelle: 05:58 Yeah, I know. Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 05:59 So, um, basically his idea in writing is if you write only what’s above the, you know, above the water, the iceberg below, like people can figure out what’s underneath. You don’t have to tell them.

Michelle: 06:12 That’s. You know what, I appreciate that style of writing so much more because like, I had to read a lot of classic literature in high school, which is the, honestly, the only time I’ve picked up classic literature, um,

Brandi Sea: 06:23 You’re missing out.

Michelle: 06:24 I, because they’re not brief

Brandi Sea: 06:27 No. They’re very flowery usually.

Michelle: 06:28 And it’s like I look, look Steinback I do not care how long it took this turtle to cross the road. I don’t care.

Brandi Sea: 06:35 Yeah.

Michelle: 06:36 And it’s like a three-page chapter that took me about two weeks to read cause I did not care. And so it’s just like, I mean sure now I know I can.

Brandi Sea: 06:47 You can appreciate it.

Michelle: 06:47 I can appreciate it, but it was really rough for me.

Brandi Sea: 06:50 Yeah. So the cool thing about this book that I really liked is it, it gives you the author, it tells you like when they were born, if they died, what style of writing they have. So for Stephen King, obviously horror, Gothic Scifi and it tells you what their, like their most known work is, but then it, it gives you like.

Michelle: 07:08 What does it say for.

Brandi Sea: 07:08 His most known work is the shining.

Michelle: 07:10 Okay.

Brandi Sea: 07:10 Yeah. Um, it gives them, it gives a couple of quotes by them, some of their thoughts on writing. And then these are all exercises that help you see how they think about writing. So for Stephen King, it’s his, and I told you this earlier, it’s his, um, what if yes, he does. What if a policeman in a remote Nevada town went berserk and started killing everyone on site. That’s his movie or his book Desperation. So like he, it gives you what if it just has what if in a bunch of blank lines.

Michelle: 07:38 Love it.

Brandi Sea: 07:38 So it’s just like this really, I want to start getting better at writing creative writing. Like so that someday when I write the books, I’m planning to write that I’m better at it. And also it makes me better at design because as we all know, it all starts with words and there’s lots of words in writing.

Michelle: 07:56 So these are like writing prompts, but it’s more than that.

Brandi Sea: 07:58 Yeah. It has more direction. Yeah. I mean, yeah. More direction ish.

Michelle: 08:03 Yeah. Ish.

Brandi Sea: 08:03 Just different kinds of prompts for a specific purpose.

Michelle: 08:06 Yes.

Brandi Sea: 08:06 Yeah. So that’s really fun. I just got that and um, I’m really close. Once summit’s over. I’m going to be able to finish my Alice book cover. So I’m really, really excited about that. I’m like, I’m like this close.

Michelle: 08:18 This close.

Brandi Sea: 08:19 To getting that done.

Michelle: 08:21 It’s pretty close.

Brandi Sea: 08:22 Um, and I’ve been listening to more Mike Mains.

Michelle: 08:25 Mike Mains in the branches.

Brandi Sea: 08:27 This time. It’s, it’s Mike Mains and Yacht Money.

Michelle: 08:31 Yacht Money.

Brandi Sea: 08:31 Which I found out was

Michelle: 08:33 I can’t even handle this name. I can’t handle it.

Brandi Sea: 08:39 So Yacht Money, um, I’m pretty sure it’s his wife. So the former lead singer, the original lead singer for Family Force Five, Solomon Olds, Um, I think this is his, him and his wife. So, but I think she is Yacht Money, which is.

Michelle: 08:51 Gotta be joking, Right?

Brandi Sea: 08:56 I don’t know.

Michelle: 08:56 Good for her. Let’s hear it.

Brandi Sea: 08:56 This is the song.

Brandi Sea: 08:56 It’s so great

Michelle: 10:06 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 10:06 I like it a lot. I don’t know where else the Yacht Money is except for her saying Yacht Money in the beginning.

Michelle: 10:11 She drops her name. That’s how you know she’s real though. Name dropper.

Brandi Sea: 10:16 It. I mean, I guess if you have that style of music, you, you are supposed to drop your own name. I mean.

Michelle: 10:20 I mean Murda.

Brandi Sea: 10:23 Yeah.

Michelle: 10:24 Got It. You have to.

Brandi Sea: 10:24 Whatever you say, Michelle.

Michelle: 10:26 Dominic would get that.

Brandi Sea: 10:27 You’re probably right. You’re probably right. And he’s probably going to message me as soon as he hears this, he will understand you.

Michelle: 10:34 It’s Ja Rule

Brandi Sea: 10:34 Oh yeah.

Michelle: 10:35 Murda.

Brandi Sea: 10:37 But his name isn’t Murda. He’s not saying, Ja Rule.

Michelle: 10:38 But that’s his label. That’s his label.

Brandi Sea: 10:41 But that’s like he was.

Michelle: 10:42 Trusts me. There is some people who name the rock themselves all of the time.

Brandi Sea: 10:47 So that’s a thing.

Michelle: 10:48 Yeah. Oh for sure.

Brandi Sea: 10:49 I mean if you want to be funny, if he was like with his Ukulele going, Mike Mains.

Michelle: 10:57 Mike Mains.

Brandi Sea: 10:57 It’s for a certain kind of music anyways. Um, I just thought it was funny. I just can’t help but like the finer things in life. I tell myself this all the time, like, why can’t I just like cheap things? Like I don’t like expensive things on purpose.

Michelle: 11:12 Yacht money, likes expensive things too.

Brandi Sea: 11:16 These Blundstone boots. And I was like, I have to have these boots. Crap. They’re two, they’re almost $200 probably $200 with shipping. No. Why can’t I like cheap boot?

Michelle: 11:27 But why?

Brandi Sea: 11:27 So I thought that Kinda stuck out to me. It’s funny, I was also listening to this song when it was raining and when he says like, no clouds, no rain, everything is going my way. I was like all clouds, all rain, everything is going my way right now. Cause it’s, you know, for most people clouds are a bad thing. Rain means like sadness and down days. I was so amped this morning.

Michelle: 11:49 I just watched, I’m going to interrupt.

Brandi Sea: 11:51 No, it’s fine.

Michelle: 11:51 I just watched, just watched the, um finding finding Mr. Banks.

Brandi Sea: 11:56 Oh yeah. It’s so good.

Michelle: 11:57 And there is a line that, um, that, what did it, it’s so funny cause she’s still, she’s sitting in the back of the chauffeur, like the back of the car, the chauffeur’s talking, who I think is like, oh shoot, what’s his name.

Brandi Sea: 12:11 I saw when it came out, I can’t remember.

Michelle: 12:13 But um, she was like, she was like, it’s too sunny here. And she, and he goes and he goes, but don’t you, aren’t you always by the, with the rain or something? She goes, she goes, rain brings life. And I was like, oh my gosh. And he goes, so does the sun like, oh.

Brandi Sea: 12:27 The sun brings me like tiredness.

Michelle: 12:33 It brings me new foundation that I don’t want to buy, but whatever.

Brandi Sea: 12:38 That too. So, um, yeah, I dunno. It’s just like, it’s a very upbeat, like I love the change in tempo here and there and it just was, was funny to me that just can’t help but like the finer things in life.

Michelle: 12:51 Yeah. I know why he featured Yacht Money on this because that name says that name says that I get what I want. That name says I have everything.

Brandi Sea: 13:04 What would your rapper name be if that this girl’s name is Yacht Money?

Michelle: 13:08 I don’t know. Michelle Money. M Money.

Brandi Sea: 13:11 Mitch money.

Michelle: 13:12 Mitch money. I don’t know. I’m not there yet.

Brandi Sea: 13:16 We’ll come back to you.

Michelle: 13:16 I don’t, I hope to never be a rapper, but.

Brandi Sea: 13:19 Oh my gosh. How was your week?

Michelle: 13:21 My week has been pretty good. I’ve just been bingeing. Orange is the New Black, it came out a few weeks ago so I’m behind.

Brandi Sea: 13:27 Have you always wanted to watch it or was it like, I don’t have any other shows what new shows.

Michelle: 13:31 Oh No, I keep up with it. I’m bingeing the last season.

Brandi Sea: 13:33 Oh okay.

Michelle: 13:33 Which just came out.

Brandi Sea: 13:34 I don’t think I knew you watched that show.

Michelle: 13:36 Oh Yeah. So I have, um, I just posted a meme yesterday that was like your friends finding out that you’ve been obsessed with the bachelor. It’s like how long has it been, how, how long have you been obsessed with the bachelor? And then it shows.

Brandi Sea: 13:48 Maybe two years.

Michelle: 13:48 It shows Rose from the titanic. It’s been 84 years. I love it. Um, but so yeah, I’ve watched Orange is the New Black for probably like.

Brandi Sea: 14:01 The whole time.

Michelle: 14:02 Yeah. I mean I, I didn’t binge, I’ve been to the first season, but like it was when the second season came out and that’s when I started watching it. And so it’s the last season now and I’m two episodes away from the end and.

Brandi Sea: 14:14 Wow.

Michelle: 14:14 So it’s, it’s getting to the point where I’m like, okay, how are they going to wrap this up? Because.

Brandi Sea: 14:19 There’s a lot of loose ends.

Michelle: 14:20 There’s some loose ends that need to be fixed and

Brandi Sea: 14:23 Sometimes they just don’t.

Michelle: 14:24 But you can tell that it’s, it’s like time.

Brandi Sea: 14:26 Okay.

Michelle: 14:27 It’s time. It just like, how are they going to do it?

Brandi Sea: 14:29 Yeah.

Michelle: 14:29 And are they, and are they going to disappoint me? So that’s basically all I’ve been doing, honestly.

Brandi Sea: 14:34 Well, that’s okay.

Michelle: 14:35 Oranges just got it. Focus on one thing at a time. Making my dog is shedding like crazy. And so I just keep vacuuming.

Brandi Sea: 14:43 Oh my gosh. She has a you have a German shepherd, right?

Michelle: 14:46 No.

Brandi Sea: 14:46 Is he a German Shepherd? What is he?

Michelle: 14:46 He’s got, shepherd. He looks like a Hyena. Um,

Brandi Sea: 14:51 No he does not. He’s so pretty. Hyena’s are horrendous.

Michelle: 14:54 He’s got the same markings as a Hyena, but it’s something.

Brandi Sea: 14:57 Is it like a little bit of a Brendel.

Michelle: 14:58 It’s like a blue Merle coat, but more like a hyena,

Brandi Sea: 15:01 What’s a Blue Merle?

Michelle: 15:02 It’s like that black and gray.

Brandi Sea: 15:04 Oh okay.

Michelle: 15:04 Um, no, he’s a mix. He’s a Mutt and I love him. Um, he actually.

Brandi Sea: 15:08 His name is Jethro.

Michelle: 15:09 His name is Jethro, which is the name that was given to him by the pound back in the day. Um, and we were like, it fits him. He already looks like an old man. Um, and so we kept it, but he is like Australian shepherd with um, Cata Hula with blue healer.

Brandi Sea: 15:29 Sounds like a hunting dog.

Michelle: 15:29 Oh yeah.

Brandi Sea: 15:30 Or a sheepdog.

Michelle: 15:30 And when you, I I don’t know that he.

Brandi Sea: 15:32 A herding dog.

Michelle: 15:33 He’s a herding dog, which he only herds like.

Brandi Sea: 15:37 Your daughter.

Michelle: 15:37 Small animals or small small kids like which are like animals. Um, but he, um, he, when you let him out, he runs like he’s a blur. Um, he’s fast and so I, I haven’t, we don’t do that very often. He’s getting old.

Brandi Sea: 15:54 He’s like leaving tufts of hair behind.

Michelle: 15:56 Oh my gosh. It’s so, it’s like Tufts right now. He’s becoming a new dog right now. Like, and when I, when I pick up dog hair, it’s like I’m holding a small animal in my hand and then I vacuum the rest. So it’s kinda gross.

Brandi Sea: 16:08 Give it to DJ be like, here, make a stuffed animal.

Michelle: 16:09 Make something out of this. Gross. We have to wash it.

Brandi Sea: 16:13 It’s like the new, the new.

Michelle: 16:16 Instead of like Alpaca.

Brandi Sea: 16:17 No. And instead of like, it’s what sustainability. It’s like don’t put, don’t put polyester inside stuffed animals, but.

Michelle: 16:26 Gross. Gross. Gross. That’s disgusting.

Brandi Sea: 16:29 I don’t know. Okay. So do you have a song idea week?

Michelle: 16:33 I do have a song

Brandi Sea: 16:34 After all these years

Michelle: 16:35 After all, all these years I finally have a song, but it’s only because it reminded me of what we’re talking about today. Um, I have not been listening to this artist, but I love this song by her. It’s, but it’s not something I’ve been really into lately. Um, I just think it goes along well with what we’re talking about. It’s Jem Just a ride.

Michelle: 17:50 So I heard.

Brandi Sea: 17:52 It’s good.

Michelle: 17:53 I love it. Um, the, this is Jem j e m not to be confused with like the.

Brandi Sea: 18:00 The cartoon. The big hair cartoon

Michelle: 18:01 The cartoon from the 80s. Um, but she, I heard her, she was on the OC soundtrack playlist thingy from early two thousand.

Brandi Sea: 18:11 Yeah, it sounds early two-thousands, but in all the best ways.

Michelle: 18:13 Yes.

Brandi Sea: 18:13 I like super dated. It doesn’t.

Michelle: 18:15 No, it doesn’t feel dated. I don’t think so.

Brandi Sea: 18:18 The recording quality is the only thing that kind of tips you off.

Michelle: 18:20 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 18:20 This is a little older.

Michelle: 18:22 Yeah, it’s not as clean.

Brandi Sea: 18:24 Yeah.

Michelle: 18:25 Um, but I have always just loved this song. It reminds me to slow down and chill out. Like it’s cool. You don’t need to be where you are because maybe, maybe it’ll help me on my road trips. Um, because I hate road trips.

Brandi Sea: 18:38 Just to play the song the whole time. All 12 hours.

Michelle: 18:40 But the end of the song it says it’s just a ride. It’s just a, it’s just a ride. No need to run, no need to hide. It’ll take you all around. Sometimes you’re up, sometimes you’re down. Um, don’t be scared now. Dry Your eyes. It may feel so real inside, but don’t forget to enjoy the ride.

Brandi Sea: 18:56 Oh, that’s good. So that’s awesome.

Michelle: 18:59 Spot on.

Brandi Sea: 19:00 Yeah.

Michelle: 19:00 To what we’re talking about. So that’s why I wanted to play that song also. It’s just good and.

Brandi Sea: 19:05 It is good.

Michelle: 19:06 I hope you enjoy it.

Brandi Sea: 19:07 It’s kind of an earworm.

Michelle: 19:09 Yeah. Oh yeah. I get this song.

Brandi Sea: 19:11 It’s already stuck in my head.

Michelle: 19:12 This song is something that I sing in the shower because it’s just all of a sudden popped into my head while I’m like in the shower, I don’t know.

Brandi Sea: 19:19 It was so random that you were like, oh, I have the right song. And I was like.

Michelle: 19:22 I had the right song for that.

Brandi Sea: 19:23 So that’s why, because.

Michelle: 19:24 I had been listening to his Chance the Rapper and I have not going to bring, I like Chance the Rapper, but I’m not going to bring that song. I mean if you want to go listen to a hot shower, by all means, which is really funny. It’s a really great song.

Brandi Sea: 19:38 I don’t even know. Um maybe later.

Michelle: 19:39 But, so speaking of showers, there you go. Um, um, oh, it’s such a good song. But Jem, this song, what we’re talking about today is, um, we know what the, what we want the outcome to be, but we forget to embrace the middle section and what.

Brandi Sea: 19:59 The messy middle.

Michelle: 20:00 The messy middle. Ooh, we talked to his name is.

Brandi Sea: 20:05 You can do it.

Michelle: 20:06 I can’t remember.

Brandi Sea: 20:06 Scott Belsky.

Michelle: 20:07 Scott Belsky yes. To Scott Belsky about that.

Brandi Sea: 20:10 The yellow book.

Michelle: 20:10 I know. I was going to say Scott Belsky but then I was like, I, it’s too easy. I did not get that right. Um, I got it right and.

Brandi Sea: 20:17 You did.

Michelle: 20:17 Did not see. That’s why I fail all tests. See, this is why I don’t do well with tests this why.

Brandi Sea: 20:23 Life is not a test, Michelle.

Michelle: 20:23 Well, you can

Brandi Sea: 20:24 It’s a journey.

Michelle: 20:25 Can you tell my work that? Making me take tests all the time and stressing me out. Um, but yeah, so we’re going to be talking about that. Embracing the the middle, the messy middle. Sometimes you’re up, sometimes you’re down.

Brandi Sea: 20:42 Isn’t that another song?

Michelle: 20:44 It sounds like Dr. Seuss.

Brandi Sea: 20:45 Sometimes you’re down.

Michelle: 20:46 It’s Dr. Seuss.

Brandi Sea: 20:46 Is it?

Michelle: 20:48 It’s like, it’s like, oh, the places you’ll go.

Brandi Sea: 20:51 Yeah, probably the places you will go.

Michelle: 20:54 Maybe it is another, I don’t know.

Brandi Sea: 20:56 I feel like, I feel like it’s another kid song.

Michelle: 20:59 You’re up. I’m just looking it up now. Sometimes you’re up. Come on fingers. Sometimes you’re down. Aye. It’s a quote by, no.

Brandi Sea: 21:08 No.

Michelle: 21:10 No, I don’t. I don’t know who Fred Junge is. Whatever.

Brandi Sea: 21:17 We’ll figure it out.

Michelle: 21:18 Whatever. Maybe we won’t.

Brandi Sea: 21:19 Maybe we won’t. We’ll forget about it as soon as we’re done recording.

Michelle: 21:22 I don’t know.

Brandi Sea: 21:23 I don’t know what happens.

Michelle: 21:24 Yeah. Um, I don’t know. We decompressed.

Brandi Sea: 21:27 I know there’s always like, oh, we need to talk about that another time. Oh, we need to talk about that another time. Then it’s time for another podcast. And.

Michelle: 21:33 What do we talk about?

Brandi Sea: 21:34 What do you want to talk about today, I dunno.

Michelle: 21:35 I dunno what you want to talk about. It’s like, where do you want to eat? This is not going to happen.

Brandi Sea: 21:39 It’s like pinky and the brain.

Michelle: 21:40 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 21:41 What do you want to do? Take over the world.

Michelle: 21:43 So, um, let’s talk about it.

Brandi Sea: 21:46 Okay. What do we, what are we talking about?

Michelle: 21:48 Embracing the middle.

Brandi Sea: 21:49 Okay. So, um, I don’t know if you guys remember me talking about this. Um, the flag that I, that I made at the James Victori retreat and it says excellence on it and in figuring out, so he wanted us to have basically one word that we put on, on this flag and an image if it’s necessary. That kind of reflects the word or mean something to the word. And so in, in true form to me, I did a word map and was trying to figure out, um, what one word could encapsulate. Like what I, what I want or w was a word or a phrase. I think he said it was a word or phrase. And so I came around to this idea, um, and Is I thought it’s not about the rabbit was kind of this thing that I, I can’t, I like came up with and it’s something that I’ve, I’ve been thinking about for a long time since then that the white rabbit. Um, so Alice in Wonderland is obviously a huge thing for me.

Michelle: 22:53 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 22:53 And besides the fact that it’s just an awesome book, it’s whimsical. There’s, there’s so much cool stuff to it. There’s a lot, there’s like crazy math problems in there that like you can find.

Michelle: 23:03 Turns out its not drugs its math.

Brandi Sea: 23:04 It’s math. Um,

Michelle: 23:06 Same thing to me.

Brandi Sea: 23:07 Yeah.

Michelle: 23:07 I don’t get either.

Brandi Sea: 23:08 Well the movie, the movie is one thing. The book is another thing, the movie probably was drugs, let’s be honest. But basically, the idea that, um, if you look at the the book, if you’ve never read the book, the movies very is very close to the book. She starts out with being distracted by the rabbit and chasing the rabbit. And it’s like all about the rabbit. But eventually, like she, she sort of like has the rabbit in mind, but she goes on all these side journeys and that’s actually only in Alice, Alice in Wonderland and then Alice through the looking glass isn’t about the rabbit at all. So they’re, they’re the two separate books. So I kind of, this is all something that’s all in my own mind. The idea is that the white rabbit is the idea. And that creatives, as creatives we’re always chasing the white rabbit. Like, oh, we need the next big idea. Oh, that idea is cool. Oh look, I’m sitting here working on this thing or doing this thing, but look, there’s another idea. I’m going to go chase that idea.

Michelle: 24:10 Rabbit trails.

Brandi Sea: 24:10 Rabbit trails. And so, um, I was thinking, you know, where does Alice go and all this, you know, it ends up being about her journey and how she grows and the the cool things that she finds in the cool people that she meets along the way. While she thinks that she’s chasing this rabbit, it actually becomes less and less about the rabbit. And then by the end, by the time she quote unquote like catches up with catches, catches up with the rabbit, um, it doesn’t even matter anymore and it, so I just, I’ve, I’ve just been thinking a lot about.

Michelle: 24:46 Like he’s endearing, but.

Brandi Sea: 24:47 Yeah, sort of. And she,

Michelle: 24:50 I mean, I quote him all time so

Brandi Sea: 24:51 He also isn’t what she expected. So when she does kind of see him when she goes to his house and gets big and all the stuff, like it’s not what she expected, which often happens with ideas. It’s like, oh, I thought this was really cool. But then when you catch it you’re like, oh, this isn’t what I thought. And if you’re just making it always about the rabbit, if it’s always about the idea, if it’s always about the next thing, you’re losing all this other stuff in between, you’re losing this journey, you’re losing all this stuff that you’re like finding and learning along the way.

Michelle: 25:25 I think that I have my favorite sitcom is a perfect example of this. How I Met Your Mother.

Brandi Sea: 25:31 Oh yes.

Michelle: 25:31 And some people are like, I don’t get it. Why is it so important? Just get to the point. And I’m like, but then you’re missing out all of the middle stuff. Like I love, unlike the white rabbit. I love when they find the white rabbit and How I Met Your Mother, which is the mother and you don’t get to meet her until Susan Eight. Um, but I, I, so I loved meeting her and I think she fit in perfectly with everything. And I loved the ending. Not many people do.

Brandi Sea: 25:56 I have mixed feelings.

Michelle: 25:58 Um, I love the ending. Um, but I mean, to me it made sense. I caught on in season six and I was like, oh, this is what’s going on. Got It. Okay, and then it turn out I was right and I just got like a little win for myself.

Brandi Sea: 26:10 I guessed right.

Michelle: 26:10 Yes. Um, but they, they embrace the middle. They, everything is for the point of finding the white rabbit. But along the way we got to meet all these other possible, they’re not white rabbits. They’re like brown rabbit. Um, and then all of these other journeys and adventures that ultimately are like memories to me now.

Brandi Sea: 26:32 Yeah.

Michelle: 26:33 I love it. And like, I’m obviously not randomly.

Brandi Sea: 26:37 I mean it’s not real life.

Michelle: 26:37 Not money in Manhattan.

Brandi Sea: 26:38 But you want to.

Michelle: 26:41 I wish I was.

Brandi Sea: 26:43 We all do. Yeah. So it’s, it’s, it’s actually something that I am, I have, like, this is one of the ideas that I have the most fleshed out for a book, just because I feel like, um, you know, not necessarily the way, uh, Scott Belsky is about the messy middle and the way he thinks about it, but more in, I think that we’re always so concerned with the end and while it’s important to finish and to follow through on ideas, um, we can get really distracted in just constantly chasing ideas.

Michelle: 27:19 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 27:19 And they are never what we think and they are elusive. And if we don’t stop and meet Tweedledee and Tweedledum along the way and.

Michelle: 27:31 You can’t learn from them.

Brandi Sea: 27:31 Hear cool stories and listen to music.

Michelle: 27:36 Little oysters.

Brandi Sea: 27:36 Kill any oysters, I mean, um, there’s just, there’s just so much. Um, and I’m all about, you know, finding inspiration everywhere too. And I think that Alice, the whole Alice in Wonderland thing is like, it’s debatable on whether we, you know, people debate, whether she’s dreaming or making a story up or like what it is that’s happening. If she’s.

Michelle: 28:03 What do you think?

Brandi Sea: 28:03 Half asleep. Um, I think she’s, I think it’s one of those half-awake, half-asleep.

Michelle: 28:11 I agree.

Brandi Sea: 28:12 Like where you think.

Michelle: 28:12 I think it’s pretty clear when she falls asleep in a field of daisies.

Brandi Sea: 28:17 But there’s also other things that make you feel like, especially through the looking glass.

Michelle: 28:21 Oh yeah. Oh, yeah.

Brandi Sea: 28:22 You don’t know if she, she was, she walked through the mirror like, so it’s, it’s sort of.

Michelle: 28:28 It’s drugs.

Brandi Sea: 28:29 I mean, come on. I just, I think that there’s just so much value in figuring out that it’s not all about the next idea.

Michelle: 28:39 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 28:39 And, and, and fig, figuring out that as a creative that you will actually be a better creative if you can if you can look around more around you during the pursuit of those ideas and realize it’s not about that. Because once you catch up to that, if you’re not looking around at all the inspiration and all the influences and all the things you could be learning on the way to finding that thing, when you get there, you’re gonna hate it and be bored with it and just want to find the next one.

Michelle: 29:11 So I can relate to this on a completely different level for anybody who has children or has taught children in a school setting and had to write a curriculum. Um, you come up with activities and you do these activities with a flock of two-year-olds, three-year-olds, four-year-olds.

Brandi Sea: 29:30 A gaggle.

Michelle: 29:30 A gaggle of these kids, and you think, oh, it’s going to be so such a great craft and they’re gonna be able to take it home and show their parents. But it absolutely never turns out how you expect it to turn out because they’re kids and I mean they all have their own idea of what the snowman should look like, you know? Um, or.

Brandi Sea: 29:49 Arm’s on the bottom.

Michelle: 29:50 Yeah. It never makes sense. And you have to let them do what they’re gonna do. Cause it’s their creative minds and they’ve just got to go for it. Sometimes they just don’t care. It’s not creativity. Um, like you just didn’t care, but that’s fine.

Brandi Sea: 30:01 You just like eating glue.

Michelle: 30:02 Yeah. That’s what you wanted to do. Okay. Um, so I learned like the hard way, well I learned the hard way but it was also nice because it was within like the first few months of me being the two-year-old teacher that these projects are not going to go the way that I anticipate them going ever. And that’s okay because this is actually the fun part for them. This is the learning part for them and they benefited from this as well as me.

Brandi Sea: 30:29 Yeah. The learning happens while you’re doing, while you’re figuring things out.

Michelle: 30:33 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 30:34 Um, it’s, it’s really interesting to me though too because once I realized that I was doing this and it was almost like a moment of self-reflection when I when I was doing this thing at the Victori Ranch like it’s not about the rabbit. It’s not about the idea. Cause even in that moment I was like, what’s the one phrase?

Michelle: 30:51 And there.

Brandi Sea: 30:52 What’s the word?

Michelle: 30:53 And because you were so freaking out, everyone else saw your word.

Brandi Sea: 30:56 They did.

Michelle: 30:56 But you did not.

Brandi Sea: 30:57 Yeah. And it, it took everyone else looking at my word map and asking me questions to go, it’s right here.

Michelle: 31:03 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 31:03 It’s on your paper. It’s been here this whole time. So my word is excellence.

Michelle: 31:06 But you didn’t see it.

Brandi Sea: 31:08 Yeah. And so I was so focused and so coming back and having this kind of be a theme and, and having the white rabbit is kind of like this ongoing thing for me. I, I, on a daily basis, when I’m creating, tell myself like, it’s not about the rabbit like I want to finish, but stop being distracted by the stupid rabbit over there, you know? It’s not about that.

Michelle: 31:30 And I’d do the same thing. I do the same thing with editing. Like it’s not about how great I want this to look just focus where I am right now.

Brandi Sea: 31:37 Yeah.

Michelle: 31:38 Where am I right now?

Brandi Sea: 31:38 The end result will be great.

Michelle: 31:40 Exactly what you intended it to be.

Brandi Sea: 31:42 If you’re focusing on what you’re doing right now, instead of worrying about the end.

Michelle: 31:45 It helps you evolve what the end will look like.

Brandi Sea: 31:48 Yeah. And I mean, especially when you’re planning and, and I don’t know how it works exactly for editing sound and stuff, but at least for my process, if I’m trusting the process and I have the idea and I have the the goal in mind, I should not have to worry about whether the idea is there or whether I need to keep chasing something new because it’s such a temptation to go, well, I have this plan. So even though I’m super committed to my own process and I know that it works, inevitably I will see something and go, oh, but this would be really cool.

Michelle: 32:22 If

Brandi Sea: 32:23 If I did this, but I’m already doing this thing and it’s great and it’s gonna work and I know it’s gonna work.

Michelle: 32:28 Don’t follow it

Brandi Sea: 32:28 Don’t follow it, don’t climb off the tree and go down the rabbit hole about follow the rabbit.

Michelle: 32:33 It’s not worth it.

Brandi Sea: 32:33 So, um, I think if anything, I would just

Michelle: 32:36 So is Alice just a distracted mess or is like, is it good?

Brandi Sea: 32:44 Are we talking about Alice or are we talking about me?

Michelle: 32:45 We’re talking about Alice.

Brandi Sea: 32:48 Alice as a picture of the creative? Um, I think that she’s curious and.

Michelle: 32:55 Undeveloped.

Brandi Sea: 32:56 Yeah. Unfocused curiosity and which can be good thing to a point because I think being endlessly, endlessly creative, and this is something that somebody that Kenny really loves, Adam Savage from Mythbusters. Um, being, being creative to the point that you are never satisfied.

Michelle: 33:18 Is dangerous.

Brandi Sea: 33:19 Well, I think it’s good if you’re always curious and I say creative. I mean I’m a curious.

Michelle: 33:24 Creative.

Brandi Sea: 33:25 Yeah. So.

Michelle: 33:25 So curious, being a curious,

Brandi Sea: 33:27 If you’re endlessly curious. It will make your work evolve and grow and it will make you evolve and grow because it, I mean if I just sat back and said, I’ve been lots of really cool places. I’ve got lots of pictures and really cool inspiration sitting in my phone and in folders and in books on my bookshelf. Um, I don’t need to learn about anything else. Like I have enough here.

Michelle: 33:53 Yikes.

Brandi Sea: 33:53 Then it’s gonna get stale.

Michelle: 33:55 That scares me for anyone in any line of work.

Brandi Sea: 33:59 But it happens.

Michelle: 34:00 I know. It’s how people go stale.

Brandi Sea: 34:01 So much. Yes. Because they’re forgetting about the journey, like whatever brought you to even even where you are, like your journey to get here has been so many different things and you, you wouldn’t actually even have the ideas about what you do now if it hadn’t been for the journey getting you here.

Michelle: 34:20 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 34:21 Um, so, and we’ve had very different paths, but because we’ve both been curious and I’ve been curious about learning different things that can add to my design. You’ve been curious about different kinds of jobs and we’ve both been able to like.

Michelle: 34:34 It’s the five in me.

Brandi Sea: 34:35 Embrace. Yeah.

Michelle: 34:36 All the jobs.

Brandi Sea: 34:37 Yeah all the jobs, isn’t it? This is it a seven.

Michelle: 34:39 Five.

Brandi Sea: 34:39 Okay.

Michelle: 34:40 Well seven and five but five in the. I’ve always, it’s funny because um.

Brandi Sea: 34:45 Fives are very curious.

Michelle: 34:47 Fives are curious and like your husband is like a master skill collector is kind of what he like has titled himself and I’ve always been, I’ve always thought I want to have as many jobs as possible so that I can know a little bit about everything. Like, so I want to do.

Brandi Sea: 35:01 But you don’t want to be an expert in one thing.

Michelle: 35:03 I don’t want to no I don’t care. Um, I wanna I just want to live life and be free. Um, but like I want to work at a chocolate factory or chocolate, like little shop or something. I want to know how to temper chocolate. I don’t know how to do that.

Brandi Sea: 35:16 You can learn how to do that without it being your job.

Michelle: 35:17 But I want it to be a job.

Brandi Sea: 35:18 Okay.

Michelle: 35:19 I want to smell chocolate.

Brandi Sea: 35:20 You want it to be on your resume, chocolatier.

Michelle: 35:22 Chocolatier I want to decorate pretty strawberries and I don’t know, it just sounds like fun. I also want to work in a grocery market, so whatever. I love a beautiful grocery aisle. Like there’s nothing more pretty to me than a beautifully faced, well-stocked aisle. Seriously.

Brandi Sea: 35:39 And any like.

Michelle: 35:40 Anywhere, anywhere.

Brandi Sea: 35:42 Not like sprouts in the organic, like jam aisle.

Michelle: 35:45 That’s nice. Yeah, as long as it’s just well-stocked. Everything is faced and it looks beautiful. It’s kind of, I think I got that from, I used to forget Hollywood video, rest in peace. And we had to like, had to like face all of the DVDs and VHS, I know, VHS. Um, and they had to be like perfectly faced and um.

Brandi Sea: 36:03 Yes.

Michelle: 36:04 And, and like, um, shelved right. Like, like edge is the word. Same with like clothing and then also books. I worked at a light, well I wasn’t librarian aid,

Brandi Sea: 36:13 Ooo.

Michelle: 36:13 And I would have to, I would bring all the books out to the end of the shelf. So they all look the same.

Brandi Sea: 36:18 Were even.

Michelle: 36:19 Yeah. And alphabetizing everything. So I dunno. It’s weird. See, I’ve done a lot.

Brandi Sea: 36:24 No, but that’s good. But the cool thing I think about you and even Kenny and it’s, it’s definitely a trait that I have, um, is being able to recognize that those things weren’t for nothing.

Michelle: 36:36 Right.

Brandi Sea: 36:36 And what did I get out of that.

Michelle: 36:40 They’re for order.

Brandi Sea: 36:40 Yes, yes. So, um, I don’t, I don’t know. And today’s conversation wasn’t really like a question. I guess.

Michelle: 36:47 Yeah, it was just a, it, it kind of was a question, but it’s, it’s more of like, like why should we embrace the middle? What’s the point when we, I mean, our end goal is to get this done in through and be happy with it. But what’s the point of doing something if you’re not gonna enjoy the middle part? If you’re not going to enjoy the ride, like then you just leave work or whatever, you’re doing unhappy and unfulfilled. And that’s not what most people, maybe some people don’t care about. But most that’s not what most people want out of their life.

Brandi Sea: 37:17 The other thing too is that, um, in life, especially for creatives and curious people, is if it’s all about the end, you’re never gonna find it because the finish line is always moving. It’s like, okay. It’s almost like the when people say like, enough money is never enough money, you know, if I had $100 million, I’d be happy.

Michelle: 37:39 But you won’t.

Brandi Sea: 37:41 It’s sort of like, well, if I get, if I have just the perfect idea, then I’ll be happy. If I even me, like I’m like, man, if I could design book covers forever.

Michelle: 37:51 You could be.

Brandi Sea: 37:52 That would be like, okay, I do know that would be fulfilling, but then I would.

Michelle: 37:58 That’s not all you want to do.

Brandi Sea: 37:58 That’s not all I want to do. And, and that wouldn’t be the source of my happiness. And I know that that wouldn’t be the end of my journey. And that wouldn’t be like the ideas are still going to be elusive and always needing, chasing.

Michelle: 38:11 Well, and here’s the thing, not every creative gets to live their dream job with.

Brandi Sea: 38:17 Oh yeah.

Michelle: 38:17 Which is whatever they’re doing.

Brandi Sea: 38:19 Not even close.

Michelle: 38:19 Um, and we are fortunate enough to be able to live what we love. You know like that’s where we work. Um, but not everyone gets to do that. And I have been in that pool before.

Brandi Sea: 38:31 We all have, I worked at a bank for four years.

Michelle: 38:32 I worked with a doctor’s office.

Brandi Sea: 38:33 I mean.

Michelle: 38:34 I learned a lot, but I wish I didn’t have to. Um, but I can apply that to even that then because I lived a lot of my time just waiting for five o’clock because as soon as it was five, I clocked out. I left, I didn’t think about it, but I did dread the next day five o’clock hit. Oh, what a relief. I can leave this wretched place.

Brandi Sea: 38:56 And then you go to bed dreading waking up.

Michelle: 38:57 But I don’t want to wake up the next day. Um, and there were, I lived a lot of my time like that there, but there were times that I was like, just enjoy it. Like it’s fine. Like you, like the people you work with, um, you get to look at these really, we had a, she had a really beautiful fish tank. These fish are awesome. One did commit suicide and jump out. It was a Dory.

Brandi Sea: 39:18 What?

Michelle: 39:18 Um, rest in peace Dory. It was.

Brandi Sea: 39:20 Do that.

Michelle: 39:21 Yeah. You didn’t know fish committed suicide?

Brandi Sea: 39:23 No.

Michelle: 39:24 Yes. They jump out.

Brandi Sea: 39:25 I thought they were just really stupid and like, just didn’t know where they were jumping.

Michelle: 39:28 Well, I don’t know in that case, but this, this thing. This thing had gotten new fish in the fish tank and then jumped out and became beef jerky, fish jerky. Um, it was gross. It was like,

Brandi Sea: 39:41 Ew.

Michelle: 39:41 We’re looking.

Brandi Sea: 39:43 What do you mean it became fish jerky?

Michelle: 39:43 We were looking for Dory for a long time.

Brandi Sea: 39:46 Oh you didn’t know.

Michelle: 39:46 And we couldn’t find her. And finally we like looked behind. I’m like, oh my gosh, she is back here. So Dory committed suicide. But it was still a beautiful fish tank. And I like, our boss was amazing. Like I work for an incredible doctor. The downside was that I dealt with really, really mean women all day. And so that’s what I didn’t look forward to. And that’s what I let rule my time at this doctor’s office for so long. And I’d have to refocus myself every single time. Like another plus side. I live really, I lived, lived, worked really close to, um, a really nice restaurant.

Brandi Sea: 40:24 The Grove. Where we went the other day for my birthday.

Michelle: 40:27 Yes. So there were plus sides and good things. And so you can take this more into just, you know, design or your creative world, be creative with your thinking.

Brandi Sea: 40:36 No, it is, and it’s, it’s like looking at your situation for what can I get out of it, um, in all kinds of ways. And as a creative, that means how can I use this towards my, my creative journey as a person. How can I grow from this even if it’s hard? And um, you know, just remember that like the next idea, the next white rabbit that cross your path isn’t going to be easier.

Michelle: 41:02 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 41:02 Than the last one you tried chasing.

Michelle: 41:04 Definitely not. There it is. That’s good. That’s good. Good little wrap-up.

Brandi Sea: 41:09 Thanks.

Michelle: 41:09 To this.

Brandi Sea: 41:10 I tried real hard.

Michelle: 41:12 You did a great job. So.

Brandi Sea: 41:13 So Michelle, where can people find us?

Michelle: 41:16 Well, you can find us on all forms of social media via Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, um, with, I said via in the wrong place, but whatever @brandisea.

Brandi Sea: 41:25 B R A N D I S E A.

Michelle: 41:27 And you can also find us on Instagram @designspeakspodcast you can keep updated with specifically podcast. And all of the great content we provide. Not to like toot our own horn, but um, it’s there. So @designspeakspodcast Oh we also have Music from Design Speaks on Spotify. So go follow that and go check out all the songs we play. Um, and if you get any value from our show, it would be amazing if you gave us a review and five stars on iTunes or you can just share an episode with a friend or on Instagram. I know that our episodes are on Spotify so you can share directly from there is you would like.

Brandi Sea: 42:01 Yeah, I need to start doing that more. I forget too, cause I don’t listen there.

Michelle: 42:04 Me too. Same. Um, and a huge thanks to Vesperteen for allowing us to use his song Shatter in the Night as the intro and outro to our podcast.

Brandi Sea: 42:12 And PS our playlist is now at eight hours and 24 minutes.

Michelle: 42:17 Dang. That is.

Brandi Sea: 42:18 That’s a full workday of listening.

Michelle: 42:19 Full Workday, for some. Full workday.

Brandi Sea: 42:22 For some.

Michelle: 42:22 Except for nurses. They do 10’s.

Brandi Sea: 42:24 You’re working tens right now too. For another two days.

Michelle: 42:28 Rest in peace. My 10 hour day. Um, once again, check out our show notes for links and information. Thank you, Joelle, for doing that. And, um, that’s it on all our Design Speaks episodes. The end.

Brandi Sea: 42:39 Goodbye.

Michelle: 42:39 Goodbye.