On today’s episode, we’re sharing three really amazing interviews from the AIGA National Leadership Retreat that Brandi attended last month in Atlanta! Ashleigh Axios, Forest Young, and Sarah Brooks talk the future of design and our role as designers.
Michelle’s week:
Michelle has been up to a lot or organization. Every Saturday for the last month or so she has been going to the Grower’s Market that we have In the Albuquerque area. She uses the time to also get groceries and also have some fun with her family. And instead of watching tv at night, Michelle has been crawling into bed are rereading Harry Potter. And besides, that Michelle has been crazy busy at work like always. They are in the process of remodeling their office to she had to move to a different office space. She also impulsively bought a tattoo stick and poke kit! She has already given her husband a tattoo. Stay tuned because the design speaks team may all get matching tattoos. And lastly, Michelle has started doing Body Pump and she is loving it even though she can’t walk up Brandi’s stairs.
Brandi’s week:
Brandi finally finished Stranger Things and she is happy with season 3. She has also signed a couple of contracts for some design work which is exciting, and she is working on preparing for her vow renewal which is in a couple of weeks. And besides that, she got to go to this AIGA conference where she recorded the interviews you will hear in this episode. This was Brandi’s first year getting to attend as the president of the New Mexico chapter.
Takeaways from this episode:
- It’s important to think about how things change over time.
- As a designer, you not only need specialization but also understanding of the whole.
- You’re really not as creative as you could be if you just use a mouse.
- Design is like a conversation using a plethora of visual tools.
- A community should have consistency.
- A designer can help shape the future.
- There is a responsibility that comes along with design.
- Designers have to do research to do good work.
Michelle’s song: To the Ground by Death Cab for Cutie
The episode with Karen Himba: http://www.brandisea.com/podcasts/ep107/
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Thank you to Vesperteen for allowing us to use his song Shatter in the Night as our intro and outro music for Design Speaks
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THANK YOU to the ultra-talented Vesperteen (Colin Rigsby) for letting us use his (“Shatter in The Night”) track in every episode of Design Speaks.
Intro: 00:00:00 Welcome to Design Speaks. This lovely podcast is brought to you by graphic design geek and a regular human being AKA a non-designer. We’re here to chat about music, pop culture, cool places, and basically whatever we feel is relevant.
Brandi Sea: 00:00:18 Hey, I’m Brandi Sea, design strategist.
Michelle: 00:00:21 And I’m Michelle the regular human being in the room.
Brandi Sea: 00:00:25 Implying I’m not regular and it’s okay.
Michelle: 00:00:28 That’s okay. You can be weird. You’ve lived in that for your whole life.
Brandi Sea: 00:00:32 And you’re listening to episode 114 of Design Speaks.
Michelle: 00:00:36 On today’s episode. We have a very special little something for you actually. Kind of big something.
Brandi Sea: 00:00:42 Yeah.
Michelle: 00:00:42 Um, as you all know, Brandi got to go to a conference not too long ago and while she was there, an AIGA conference, she got to talk to some pretty special people. So we will be hearing those interviews and getting some little golden nuggets out of every single one of them.
Brandi Sea: 00:00:59 Yeah really, really golden.
Brandi Sea: 00:01:04 If you love this show and want to support it so we can keep making more episodes. Get to our Patreon
Michelle: 00:01:09 It’s patreon.com/designspeaks and you can give as little as $1 or as much as $50. You can give monthly, you can give one time, whatever you want.
Brandi Sea: 00:01:20 We can’t do this without you.
Michelle: 00:01:21 We can’t do this without you. So go https://www.patreon.com/designspeaks
Brandi Sea: 00:01:26 So it’s been a few weeks since we like actually recorded thanks to all of the things and travel and stuff. So.
Michelle: 00:01:34 Life is life, man.
Brandi Sea: 00:01:35 So what have you been up to?
Michelle: 00:01:37 Um, well I feel like I’ve been up to a lot, but I’ve also, I think it’s just a lot of organizing.
Brandi Sea: 00:01:44 You just can’t remember what it was.
Michelle: 00:01:45 That’s how it goes. It’s like what have you been up to?
Brandi Sea: 00:01:47 If you didn’t write it down, you didn’t do anything.
Michelle: 00:01:49 I know. Um, every Saturday I have been going to the growers market, which is tons of fun for me. And I do my shopping, which I just realized is probably really annoying for my family because they want to have fun. And I’m like, hold on, I gotta go find some carrots.
Brandi Sea: 00:02:07 You mean you don’t just like browse every single thing and then grab stuff as you go?
Michelle: 00:02:11 That’s the thing. Well no, not as I go. So I browse, I go up the entire way of produce looking and scoping out and then I come back down to.
Brandi Sea: 00:02:20 Get your favorites.
Michelle: 00:02:20 Do my shopping. Yeah And so it takes me like a good 45 minutes to get it done. But it’s the produce for the, for the week in our house. And so.
Brandi Sea: 00:02:29 It sounds so bougie.
Michelle: 00:02:30 It is.
Brandi Sea: 00:02:30 I go to the farmer’s market,
Michelle: 00:02:32 I go to the growers market.
Brandi Sea: 00:02:33 The growers market to get my vegetables.
Michelle: 00:02:35 And I bring my own bags.
Brandi Sea: 00:02:36 Of course.
Michelle: 00:02:37 And.
Brandi Sea: 00:02:37 Of course you do.
Michelle: 00:02:38 I know it’s, I love it. And.
Brandi Sea: 00:02:40 You’re like saving the planet one.
Michelle: 00:02:42 One plastic bag at a time.
Brandi Sea: 00:02:45 Yeah.
Michelle: 00:02:46 That’s all I can offer. Um, so that has been going on every like Saturday for like, I want to say like a month and month and a half now. That’s just been fun.
Brandi Sea: 00:02:54 That’s exciting.
Michelle: 00:02:55 And it won’t be forever because it’s only during summer.
Brandi Sea: 00:02:57 I know bummer. Things don’t grow in the winter apparently.
Brandi Sea: 00:03:00 Well they grow in the fall.
Michelle: 00:03:01 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:03:02 Does it not go to the fall?
Michelle: 00:03:03 It might, I think it just depends on weather.
Brandi Sea: 00:03:05 Oh.
Michelle: 00:03:05 But we’ll see. Um.
Brandi Sea: 00:03:07 Michelle barely made it into my house to record tonight thanks to the weather. I know it’s crazy. It looks like it’s passed now. I see blue sky, but it was like crazy lightning and I was just told my daughter is like, now when you get out you need to run to the door. Cause I’m like, this is when we get stuck by lightning.
Brandi Sea: 00:03:23 A I was there at the door. Like, come inside.
Michelle: 00:03:26 Thankfully I was so nervous. Um, instead of like stopping the day and going and watching TV, I’ve been crawling into bed and picking up Harry Potter.
Brandi Sea: 00:03:39 Awe.
Michelle: 00:03:39 I’ve been reading. I kinda cheated.
Brandi Sea: 00:03:40 Did you start from the beginning?
Michelle: 00:03:41 No, I started in the fourth book.
Brandi Sea: 00:03:42 Is that your favorite book? You just started with your favorite?
Michelle: 00:03:44 It’s just when things start to get really serious. And so I
Brandi Sea: 00:03:48 Harry’s not a kid anymore.
Michelle: 00:03:49 He’s not a kid anymore, so he’s a straight-up teenager and so it’s Goblet of Fire.
Brandi Sea: 00:03:56 I’ve not read them yet.
Michelle: 00:03:57 It’s okay. You.
Brandi Sea: 00:03:58 I will.
Michelle: 00:03:58 I believe that someday you will.
Brandi Sea: 00:03:59 I will. It’s on my list.
Michelle: 00:04:01 It’s.
Brandi Sea: 00:04:01 We’re doing Lord of the Rings first.
Michelle: 00:04:03 That’s good. That’s good. Um, so I read, I got through goblet and now I’m on to Order of the Phoenix and I’ve been.
Brandi Sea: 00:04:14 And you say you can’t read fast.
Michelle: 00:04:15 Well, I mean it’s Harry Potter, so it’s like, I know what’s going on.
Brandi Sea: 00:04:21 The fifth book is a thick book.
Michelle: 00:04:22 I know, but for some reason this one gets me. This one gets me. Like, oh my gosh. It was like, I’m glad no one was there. But at the same time, I was like, I’m just in a different place of life apparently. Because I was reading the fifth book, which you’ve seen the movies.
Brandi Sea: 00:04:37 Which one is the fifth one?
Michelle: 00:04:38 I mean fourth book. Um, goblet of fire. He’s like going through like the, there’s like the dragon and there’s like the maze at the end.
Brandi Sea: 00:04:45 Okay, yes
Michelle: 00:04:46 And then, so I’m reading the fourth book and he comes back from the graveyard, which is the end of the book. And you see, he gets dragged to an office and then you see like Molly Weasley in the hospital wing waiting for him and she’s just like freaking out. And I just start crying as I’m reading this because Molly Weasley is like the closest thing that he has to a mother and she’s taken him in as her son. And so I’m just thinking like from a mom’s perspective and then Cedric has just died and his dad is just like, you know like this is the end.
Brandi Sea: 00:05:22 This is the first time you read it since being a mother?
Michelle: 00:05:24 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:05:25 Oh.
Michelle: 00:05:25 This is the first time I read it. And so I’m just seeing it from like a different perspective. I’ve just been like, I don’t know what like this is a.
Brandi Sea: 00:05:32 The devastation
Michelle: 00:05:32 This is the worst thing. Like, like, oh, in the, you know, like 10 years ago I was like, yeah, Cedric dies. And that really sucks. But like.
Brandi Sea: 00:05:41 And then what?
Michelle: 00:05:42 And then what happens.
Brandi Sea: 00:05:43 What’s next?
Michelle: 00:05:43 Yeah, exactly. And um, so like reading it from that perspective is just like, that hit me in a weird way that I didn’t expect.
Brandi Sea: 00:05:51 When you were all alone.
Michelle: 00:05:52 Yeah. And it was like crying in my bed alone. This is weird that I’m crying over Molly Weasley right now.
Brandi Sea: 00:05:58 I mean I cried over Logan like I’ve never cried for a show in my life so.
Michelle: 00:06:01 You know? So you.
Brandi Sea: 00:06:03 I mean.
Michelle: 00:06:04 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:06:04 It is what it is.
Michelle: 00:06:05 It is what it is I guess.
Brandi Sea: 00:06:06 You get attached to these fictional characters.
Michelle: 00:06:08 I was so sad. Um, uh, more than that I have been crazy busy at work, but like always, you know, we moved offices so I’m in like, I have like new real estate right now and I’m just like making it mine for the next few months cause I.
Brandi Sea: 00:06:25 You have a view of a playground.
Michelle: 00:06:28 A view of a playground and the Bosque which in New Mexico is beautiful.
Brandi Sea: 00:06:33 That’s true. You do have that.
Michelle: 00:06:33 And so I’m really excited because it’s about to befall time and the leaves are going to change colors and I have prime real estate at my job. So people are going to become, people, walk by, they’re like, wow, it’s so beautiful and bright in here. And I’m like, I know right? So.
Brandi Sea: 00:06:49 You’re like I need some plants.
Michelle: 00:06:49 I know. Oh, I got them.
Brandi Sea: 00:06:51 Did you?
Michelle: 00:06:51 They’re in there. Oh.
Brandi Sea: 00:06:52 Like air plants are like real plants?
Michelle: 00:06:54 Real plants. Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:06:55 I mean air plants are real plants.
Michelle: 00:06:57 They are.
Brandi Sea: 00:06:58 Sort of.
Michelle: 00:06:58 You just like mist them? I think you soak them like once or twice.
Brandi Sea: 00:07:02 Yeah.
Michelle: 00:07:02 Every so often. And they live
Brandi Sea: 00:07:04 I still couldn’t keep one alive.
Michelle: 00:07:07 That’s just not happening. Um, and weird thing that I did impulse buy, I bought a tattoo kit, like a stick and poke hand pope kit.
Brandi Sea: 00:07:19 Oh you bought that? I thought Kelly bought that.
Michelle: 00:07:22 No it was my impulse buy.
Brandi Sea: 00:07:24 How do you impulse, buy a stick and poke.
Michelle: 00:07:27 Um, a friend came in with a stick and poke tattoo to work and I was like.
Brandi Sea: 00:07:32 You’re all Amazon.
Michelle: 00:07:33 Literally what happened. Like not even joking. I was like, oh my gosh, I can do that. I’m an adult. And then I went to Amazon. I’m like, they have kits and so I bought one, it was only 30 ish dollars I think. And now I’m just.
Brandi Sea: 00:07:51 So when are you doing one for me? That’s all.
Michelle: 00:07:53 Do you want one? Cause I don’t know.
Brandi Sea: 00:07:55 How does this work? Do I draw it and you.
Michelle: 00:07:57 You can draw it.
Brandi Sea: 00:07:58 And then you just trace it.
Michelle: 00:07:59 I have, um the carbon paper that people that like tattoo artists use that you can draw it you and we can put it on your body wherever you want it and then I can hand poke it into you.
Brandi Sea: 00:08:14 So you’re basically just tracing it and you’re totally comfortable with that.
Michelle: 00:08:16 Yeah. Heck yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:08:19 Okay.
Michelle: 00:08:19 Like Kelly’s, I did one on Kelly and it turned out exactly how he wanted it. I wouldn’t have gotten a tattoo.
Brandi Sea: 00:08:25 Maybe we do like something matching, that’s like tiny
Michelle: 00:08:28 Matching tattoos.
Brandi Sea: 00:08:29 And secret.
Michelle: 00:08:30 Yes. Oh, that’d be fun. That’d be really fun.
Brandi Sea: 00:08:33 Stay tuned.
Michelle: 00:08:34 I know. So that’s been my week.
Brandi Sea: 00:08:36 Wait, you forgot the fact that you can’t walk up my stairs.
Michelle: 00:08:40 Oh yeah. So I, I’ve had a, I’ve had a gym membership for like a year now, but it turns out I’m not really self-motivated, like at all. Like I went consistently for like two weeks and then I’d be like, I went once this month. That was good
Brandi Sea: 00:08:57 That was that that pays for it right.
Michelle: 00:08:58 Literally.
Brandi Sea: 00:08:59 That pays for itself just one time.
Michelle: 00:09:01 So good. Um, so I canceled that membership after a year because I didn’t get hit with a fee. And then I got another membership where a friend teaches, she’s.
Brandi Sea: 00:09:13 So now you have accountability.
Michelle: 00:09:13 So now I have accountability. She teaches classes at defined fitness and now I’m doing body pump.
Brandi Sea: 00:09:20 Who are you?
Michelle: 00:09:21 I don’t know. I, I literally never thought I’d be, I’d say that because like if you don’t know anything about body pump, it sounds like you’re doing like cheesy like Richard Simmon’s stuff.
Brandi Sea: 00:09:31 It’s not Jazzercise.
Michelle: 00:09:31 And My, I have, I follow a person on Instagram. We haven’t seen each other in years, so I was going to say friend, but more like acquaintances. She teaches jazzercise and she is like.
Brandi Sea: 00:09:43 Hardcore.
Michelle: 00:09:44 Rocker girl. Like she is not like your typical Richard Simmons but like she’s, and she’s like amazing too. So like I don’t know all of my thoughts of classes that you exercise classes that have music to them, that all of those are being shattered right now because body pump was so fun.
Brandi Sea: 00:10:03 I also feel like body pump people are like CrossFit people. Like you do body pump, you tell everyone you do body pump.
Michelle: 00:10:11 I, yeah. Oh, in that sense, probably like, but here’s the thing, my friend who teaches the class, not only did she invite me to the class, she gave me so many workout clothes.
Brandi Sea: 00:10:25 Oh.
Michelle: 00:10:25 So they say like.
Brandi Sea: 00:10:26 That’s not motivation.
Michelle: 00:10:26 Like Les Mills Body Pump and I put like goes to body pump once and like I’m wearing this stupid shirt like I.
Brandi Sea: 00:10:36 Wait so just for signing up for body pump, you get a shirt for going to Body Pump?
Michelle: 00:10:39 No, she just gave it to me.
Brandi Sea: 00:10:41 She’s like here I’m going to bribe you into coming.
Michelle: 00:10:41 I have like 70 shirts. Take these. Cause she teaches
Brandi Sea: 00:10:46 Oh my gosh.
Michelle: 00:10:46 So she gets amazing discounts for all of our stuff.
Brandi Sea: 00:10:50 That’s incredible.
Michelle: 00:10:50 Um, but yeah, so I have so much workout stuff now and like I showed up and she was like, you look good in that. And I’m like, yeah, but the problem is I’m also wearing it to the store. So she was like, I do that too. And I was like, okay, as long as I’m not alone. Like at least I really did work out this time.
Brandi Sea: 00:11:06 Oh my goodness. Sidebar. I was, I’ve been, I read, um, Gosh, I’m reading so many things about Europe to make sure that like.
Michelle: 00:11:14 You’re prepared.
Brandi Sea: 00:11:14 We’re doing it right and like I, I just finished this book called how to not be a tourist in Paris or don’t be a tourist in Paris. And um, one of the things is like what do you, what are like things that you should or shouldn’t do? Like as far as like what you wear and like what’s, what makes sense and stuff. And it was like Parisians do not do athleisure you will stick out like a sore thumb if you wear leggings and you’re not going to work out. I was like, ah French! I’ve known my whole life. It was like some great like reinforcement, but also I was like, okay, then I don’t have to worry about doing anything special.
Michelle: 00:11:51 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:11:51 Like don’t wear leggings.
Michelle: 00:11:53 I think that’s kind of what I love about America is that you could dress up or you could wear leggings so.
Brandi Sea: 00:12:01 You can do whatever you want.
Michelle: 00:12:03 Whatever you want. And you know we’re America. America is in a fragile state right now, but at least we have the freedom
Brandi Sea: 00:12:11 Les Mills to go to the store.
Michelle: 00:12:11 Because we have Les Mills, whatever. I’m good with it.
Brandi Sea: 00:12:15 So I had to call you out. I was like, she’s not going to talk about it.
Michelle: 00:12:18 Oh well I didn’t realize like I forget about it when I’m sitting down. Honestly, I feel really good right now.
Brandi Sea: 00:12:25 Yeah. We usually, we usually record standing, but if you can’t tell by the sound, that means Michelle has done a great job editing this. But there was, there was some snafu with my computer. The battery almost exploded so I had to take it to apple for two weeks so we don’t have my computer. And so we have to use some different microphones today.
Michelle: 00:12:43 And here we are making it work.
Brandi Sea: 00:12:44 Yeah.
Michelle: 00:12:45 So good luck to us.
Brandi Sea: 00:12:47 So what’s your, what’s your song?
Michelle: 00:12:49 Oh my song. Oh, okay. Death Cab for Cutie.
Brandi Sea: 00:12:52 Okay.
Michelle: 00:12:53 Has been amazing for years and years and years. I think I brought a few songs.
Brandi Sea: 00:12:58 At least one.
Michelle: 00:13:00 At least one. Um, they just released an EP. Which I kind of wish with how this EP sound was a full-length album because the, it’s, it’s so good.
Brandi Sea: 00:13:12 Is there plans for this to turn into a full-length album?
Michelle: 00:13:14 I thought you meant like the album plans by Death Cab, and I was like I don’t know what you mean.
Brandi Sea: 00:13:17 Is it plans. No, the next one’s called planned.
Michelle: 00:13:20 The next was called planned. Um, I don’t think so. I haven’t looked that far into it. Um, so this new.
Brandi Sea: 00:13:27 It just leaves you wanting more.
Michelle: 00:13:29 Exactly. Which I guess I prefer, but I’d like to hear a full album if they had it. Um, so the song I’m really familiar with is actually the second song called kids in 99. Um, I think it was like their single before for whatever reason. I’ve heard it a lot more, but I think the way they start off the album, all of their albums, they started out so epic, you know, I’ll their albums.
Brandi Sea: 00:13:52 Making a statement.
Michelle: 00:13:53 Yeah. And so to the ground is my song for today and I hope you enjoy.
Michelle: 00:14:50 So this song is.
Brandi Sea: 00:14:50 So good.
Michelle: 00:14:52 It’s so good. It’s perfect for the time of year. I don’t know if artists do this on purpose.
Brandi Sea: 00:14:57 They do.
Michelle: 00:14:58 They have to right?
Brandi Sea: 00:14:58 If they have if they have any good brand strategy, which someone like Death Cab.
Michelle: 00:15:03 Obviously.
Brandi Sea: 00:15:03 100% does.
Michelle: 00:15:05 Right.
Brandi Sea: 00:15:05 They, of course, they plan it. I mean I’m even helping Kelly like figure out his thing and I mean he just has his one thing, like he doesn’t have this these years and years and years of experience of releasing albums and he’s planning.
Michelle: 00:15:19 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:15:19 Certain times of the year to release certain things. So I think it’s a thing they do.
Michelle: 00:15:23 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:15:23 Yeah.
Michelle: 00:15:24 Yeah. Um, it’s gotta be, this sound is just so perfect. It’s perfectly Death Cab. It shows that they have grown, they’re still, they’re still into like, you know, they’re sound, but they are evolving and they’re using their life experiences and everything to play into what they’re creating. And I love it. I love it. Love it so much. It’s so good. Go check out the rest of the EP if you are interested, which I think you should be.
Brandi Sea: 00:15:58 I can always listen to Death Cab, but especially in the fall.
Michelle: 00:16:02 Oh yeah. I think.
Brandi Sea: 00:16:03 Just in general.
Michelle: 00:16:05 Plans is a summer album for me.
Brandi Sea: 00:16:07 Really? I Dunno. Maybe. I think I found them in the fall, like when I originally found that album it was definitely fall.
Michelle: 00:16:13 And you know what, Narrow Stairs is a summer album to me, but Transatlanticism, all of those other albums are definitely fall-winter albums for me.
Brandi Sea: 00:16:27 I Dunno. Yeah.
Michelle: 00:16:29 So.
Brandi Sea: 00:16:29 I think I just like, I like his voice for fall.
Michelle: 00:16:32 Oof. It’s a good fall voice.
Brandi Sea: 00:16:33 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:16:34 What about your week?
Brandi Sea: 00:16:36 My weeks. So, um, let’s see. We finally finished Stranger Things and I was pretty happy with season three.
Michelle: 00:16:45 You know what, I, every time Stranger Thing ends, things ends. I think it’s done. And then someone has to remind me that there’s probably going to be another season.
Brandi Sea: 00:16:56 There’s one or two. They are for sure having one. There’s talk of two.
Michelle: 00:17:01 Okay.
Brandi Sea: 00:17:01 Is what I read.
Michelle: 00:17:02 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:17:03 So yeah, finish that. Um, I don’t even know. I’m just gonna tell you about the conference cause that’s what I can think about right now. So, um, I, I did, I signed a couple of contracts for some design work, so, um, that was cool. And so that’s keeping me really busy. Um, figuring out my vow renewal stuff, which is in like two and a half weeks.
Michelle: 00:17:27 I gotta find all shoes.
Brandi Sea: 00:17:28 Let’s all scream. Yeah. Jasmine doesn’t have shoes either. I don’t know what I’m doing shoe wise for the party. So yeah. Anyways, there’s a lot happening. Um, but the AIGA leadership retreat that I went to where I recorded these interviews, um, it’s always really, it’s always really spectacular. I think that where we already recorded doing episodes when I went to the last one.
Michelle: 00:17:53 Yes.
Brandi Sea: 00:17:53 Like we had just started huh?
Michelle: 00:17:54 We had just started and I think you flew to like.
Brandi Sea: 00:17:56 It was Dallas.
Michelle: 00:17:56 Was it Dallas? Okay.
Brandi Sea: 00:18:00 Yeah, I was in Dallas. So, um, this was my first year attending as the president of the New Mexico chapter, which, um, it just kind of like gave me sort of a different perspective because I’m sort of responsible for a lot more now.
Michelle: 00:18:16 You are the face of New Mexico.
Brandi Sea: 00:18:17 Yeah. Um, I did have a chance this time to go with the secretary, um, of my board, which I realized at the retreat that I’m going to start, her title is going to be officially changed to operations manager. Not, not because secretary sounds sort of sexist, but it kind of sounds sexist, but she also does way more than that. Like she doesn’t just take notes at meetings like she has so much to do. So, um, she went with me and so we kind of like did the divide and conquer thing. So like I went to some things and she went to other things. And then, um, this weekend actually we’re gonna be having our board, our local board retreat so that we can like talk to them about all the stuff we learned. Um, so AIGA um, national is going through this huge transition. Um, they are, the organization is the oldest and largest, um, community of creatives and designers in the world. They’ve been around for over a hundred years. So there’s obviously some things that can’t stay the same. Like they were a hundred years ago. Like.
Michelle: 00:19:28 Right, makes sense like everything needs changing.
Brandi Sea: 00:19:28 Like a bunch of just rich white men like running things, you know, it’s like, it was like madmen, you know, it was that world.
Michelle: 00:19:38 Which you talk about in interviews.
Brandi Sea: 00:19:39 Yeah. So, um, as we were going into this thing, um, the focus is going to be shifting for them as an organization instead of being like national tells all of the thing, all of the local chapters like this is what you do and here’s how it runs and here’s the things we expect from you. Um, it’s going to be more of a conversation of us to them saying, here’s what we need. Can you do this for us?
Michelle: 00:20:07 Reverse feedback.
Brandi Sea: 00:20:08 Absolutely.
Michelle: 00:20:09 So important.
Brandi Sea: 00:20:09 They are completely flipping the script.
Michelle: 00:20:11 Which is incredible for any organization to do.
Brandi Sea: 00:20:15 Yeah.
Michelle: 00:20:16 Like that’s, that’s like forward-thinking in a way because people still aren’t doing it.
Brandi Sea: 00:20:22 Right. Well, and there, they’re basically, it was basically either, and they sort of said this, but not exactly directly said this. Like, um, you either have to kind of like change how you do things or die out as an organization because people don’t want to be on board with an organization that does things the same way that they did a hundred years ago. Um, so I was just, there was, there was a lot of great talk about community. Um, there was more ideas that I then I can even talk about here for like things I want to try and implement with, with like New Mexico. Um, anything from like partnering with like Local Government to, um, just how our board operates. Um, there was a lot of really interesting ideas that I had that I want to talk about on the podcast, um, that I am gonna make a note because I know how we do that. Um, one is like how like the value of AIGA as an organization was what started this conversation because, um, everyone’s always asking like, why should I join AIGA? Like, what do I get?
Michelle: 00:21:32 What’s the point?
Brandi Sea: 00:21:33 And so the the commonality in the conversations we were having all came back again to community, which is obviously a huge Hugh Weber thing. He was like the catalyst in a lot of this. So I gotta give him credit where credit is due. But the conversation that I was having with a bunch of the national board members was about how, the thing that brings us together is language, right? In the world. The people that you connect with is because you speak the same language, like literally the same language. If you go to a new city or someplace, you’re going to be attracted to the people that speak Italian or the people who speak French or, and so design is a language, like we’ve talked about this design speak is a thing like, so trying to create, understand that there is this community around the language of design and that is the value of a community like AIGA. Is the language. So design as a language and creating its own community was kind of like this huge idea for me that I was just like, oh my gosh, like this needs to be pushed somewhere.
Michelle: 00:22:36 Yeah. There’s, there’s potential in this subject.
Brandi Sea: 00:22:39 Yeah. So I do want to talk about that later. I just wanted to say that, um, there was a lot of conversations about why does AIGA exists and um, Houston, oh man, I think I just left the card. Houston Houston’s chapter, um, had this really incredible and simple business card, um, that basically sums up everything that that AIGA is. And I just kinda wanted to talk about this just for one second before I introduce some of these interviews. Um, because a lot of people don’t really understand what, what we do and sometimes I don’t even know how to explain it.
Michelle: 00:23:17 Right.
Brandi Sea: 00:23:17 Their business card is perfect. It says building community strengthening skills and advocating for design.
Michelle: 00:23:24 Hmm.
Brandi Sea: 00:23:24 Like those are the three things that are like so important.
Michelle: 00:23:28 Right. Totally.
Brandi Sea: 00:23:29 So, um, all that to say, uh, I got to interview some really amazing people. I didn’t even realize until I got home and I told Kenny, I was like, oh, all the people I interviewed were national board members.
Michelle: 00:23:43 Yeah. I was like, Oh, you got some interviews, not just random people around the conference.
Brandi Sea: 00:23:49 No. Yeah, which was, which is kind of nuts. I knew going in that I was going to talk to Ashley Cause I met her awhile.
Michelle: 00:23:54 She’s the president, right?
Brandi Sea: 00:23:55 Yeah, she’s the, um, she says the thing, what it’s actually called, she’s the incoming president. She’ll be president in 2020.
Michelle: 00:24:01 That’s right. Okay. Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:24:03 So she’s not the president now.
Michelle: 00:24:04 But she’s about to be.
Brandi Sea: 00:24:05 But she’s about to be. So, um, but I had kind of been talking to her, I met her a couple of years ago when she was in New Mexico for something.
Michelle: 00:24:13 Okay.
Brandi Sea: 00:24:13 So I knew I was going to talk to her, but the other people were just kind of like, I don’t know. I’ll just see who I meet.
Michelle: 00:24:17 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:24:17 And um, so the first one we’re going to hear is his name is Forest Young. And the reason I interviewed him, um, he’s a really good friend of Hugh Weber. So Hugh has been telling me the whole time since I’ve met Hugh, I have to meet Forest, I need to meet for you guys, need to meet you guys, need to meet. So when we got there, um, I introduced myself and I was like, he’s like, oh my gosh, I’ve heard so much about you. Hugh keeps telling me I have to meet you. And I was like, oh my gosh. So are we going to record a podcast interview then? And I was like half-joking.
Michelle: 00:24:50 But then he was like
Brandi Sea: 00:24:50 He was like, yeah, where at? Right now. And I was like, sure, let me just get my microphones out. So we like went to the corner over by the stage.
Michelle: 00:25:00 What I love is that you can hear people in the background talking, but it’s kind of soothing. So.
Brandi Sea: 00:25:06 It’s like that weird ambient noise in a coffee shop.
Michelle: 00:25:08 Yep, exactly. And there’s a website out there that’s for that you, it costs money now. It used to be free.
Brandi Sea: 00:25:13 There’s playlists on Spotify, I listened to them.
Michelle: 00:25:16 Of people just talking.
Brandi Sea: 00:25:16 Yeah.
Michelle: 00:25:16 But you can also listen to people talking like in French.
Brandi Sea: 00:25:19 Oh.
Michelle: 00:25:20 Like it’s like in a cafe setting.
Brandi Sea: 00:25:22 Okay. So I’ve listened to like coffee shop playlist or like walk in the park, playlists. We’re so weird.
Michelle: 00:25:28 Yeah. It works though.
Brandi Sea: 00:25:30 Yeah. So it was like really awesome. That was literally like I met him, we had like three-minute conversation and walked over and had this conversation.
Michelle: 00:25:38 Love it. And I think that everyone’s going to really enjoy this interview.
Brandi Sea: 00:25:40 Yeah. So here it is.
Brandi Sea: 00:25:43 Okay. So we’re here at the AIGA leadership conference in Atlanta and I just met the amazing, incredible Forest Young, go ahead and tell me about yourself.
Forest Young: 00:25:54 Oh, fantastic. Well, thank you so much for having me on your show. And I am Forest Young, the global principal at Wolff Olins. We are a roughly 53-year-old brand consultancy founded in London. Um, our, it’s debatable whether our first or second client where the Beatles, but our.
Brandi Sea: 00:26:12 Whoa! No kidding
Forest Young: 00:26:12 I guess we got a big start with the Beatles, so we were the only, uh, consultancy I believe to work with three apples. So we’ve worked with apple records. Uh, the, the big apple is, we did the, um, the branding for New York City for Bloomberg. Um, and, uh, and, and maybe unofficially some, some folks in Cupertino. Um, but ultimately I think the story of, Wolff Olins has been is trying to figure out, um, what is brand going to be and each of the ages, you know, I think, um, you know, um, as far as age is concerned, I think it’s important to think about, you know, how things have changed over time. I think what’s important for designers is always to try to know what’s a historical precedent, you know, so you’re not busy coming into something blind. Um, what is something that’s happening now? Is there, uh, a pulse check of something that’s happening? It’s like, you know, got a cultural lightning rod. But ultimately where are things going? And I think, um, my big hope for AIGA is that it helps designers be able to see their professional path, um, as a longer narrative arc. And I always talk about, um, if I was to start my own shop, it would be called total agency. And you know, of course, you know, a nod to total design, uh, or, or even to total football, which of course total design was. But it’s interesting to think about, you know, the relationship of like Dutch football philosophy, which is that every player could play any position. And what that does is it.
Brandi Sea: 00:27:33 That’s basically a designer.
Forest Young: 00:27:34 Exactly. And well, well, it’s interesting, right, because I think now design is becoming so porous between disciplines, you know, uh, everything has a relationship to time and space. And so if you’re a print designer you have to understand how somebody extends into environmental, understand how something changes in time.
Brandi Sea: 00:27:50 Specialization, but also understanding of the whole.
Forest Young: 00:27:55 Yes.
Brandi Sea: 00:27:56 Yeah. So, um, how has AIGA kind of impacted you and your, your path or just like what is it done for you as an organization?
Forest Young: 00:28:06 Yeah, no, it’s interesting. So AIJ has played so many different roles in my professional trajectory. Um, and I would say going all the way back to hero-worship, uh, from looking at, you know, AIGA medalist and going, oh my gosh, like I would build like an alter to like half of these people. Um, and then realizing of course, that they’re just people you and as you kind of grow into your profession and you realize, okay, like now that the veneer has been kind of stripped-back, um, what is AI? What is my relationship going to be for AIG? How am I gonna get value? You gotta be AIGA. And I think it’s interesting having been plugged into AIGA in so many different chapters. You know, I remember meeting Owen and AIGA, Austin, I remember, you know, of course saying, you know, I’m hearing about Moda and AIGA um, Atlanta of course serving on the board of AIGA in New York. Um, and then kind of loosely getting in touch with some folks in San Francisco and it’s so different.
Brandi Sea: 00:28:52 It is.
Forest Young: 00:28:52 And the fact that, um, each chapter has a different priority a different size, different size, and ambition. We want to scale, we actually want to get smaller, we want to bridge to other chapters. We want to actually be completely isolated. And so in some ways, the chapters are almost like Accenture’s of the individuals that are there. Um, which brings us to, you know, AIGA needs to be able to demonstrate value for an ever-widening and expansive gamut of what people call design.
Brandi Sea: 00:29:19 Right
Forest Young: 00:29:20 And I think a lot of the conversations here had been was AIGA for interaction designers is AIGA for you know, industrial designers. And of course there’s, you know, like, you know, IXDA and in an industrial, it’s kind of designed kind of, you know, um, you know, federations. But ultimately.
Brandi Sea: 00:29:33 The answer is yes,
Forest Young: 00:29:34 The answer is yes, but it may be that just given the size, scale, history and reputation of AIGA if I can figure out how it handles not only adjacent spaces but also welcomes and deepens conversations around, Oh, you call yourself a designer, then you have,
Brandi Sea: 00:29:50 What does that mean to you?
Forest Young: 00:29:50 You have the right to say that and you have the right to then change the definition of what design is. And then AIGA needs to accommodate because you are, I mean, individuals now are capable of, you know, sending stuff to press, printing themselves, making the whole thing from soup to nuts or the fact that an individual can almost go into end from when I could take a, I could take a creative brief, I can take a strategic brief, I can talk about opportunity white space, then go to in value pop, right about pops, design a logo, animate it, and then think about how to partner with somebody to build a site. And it’s like, wow, just even me thinking that I could go end to end early in my career would have been impossible to imagine or that AIGA would have grown with the times or at least address some of those issues.
Brandi Sea: 00:30:30 Yeah. So I feel like, um, for me AIGA has not been as wide as I hoped, but I feel like now that all these conversations are happening, especially over this weekend, um, I think we have this idea that I, that design can change the world, but nobody can define what design is. So what would you say your thoughts are on like in this space of all this kind of design, and I, this might be too big to answer in one answer, but like how do you think designers slash design can actually change the world that we live in?
Forest Young: 00:31:06 So it’s very interesting. I think a lot about this and a lot of the companies I work with have become incredibly multifaceted, right? The idea of like a multisite sided marketplace or a triple sided company. You know, like a food delivery company has like the restaurant, the courier and the diner and you’re thinking about honest like three consecutive value propositions. Like a courier has to want to deliver food, the restaurant needs to be able to trust this tech platform ecosystem. And you know, the diner just wants to make sure that the image that was on the app looks the same as what the courier is handing, which it really does. And so there you have like three consecutive value propositions and that’s like an order of magnitude of complexity different from mom and pop,
Brandi Sea: 00:31:46 Right.
Forest Young: 00:31:46 We have a point of sale when we give your grocery bag with a logo on.
Brandi Sea: 00:31:50 Yeah.
Forest Young: 00:31:50 And um, and so I think, um, that becomes very, very interesting than when you think about, um, how does one widen the gamut of that cocktail particular conversation? So for instance, um, it requires you one, you know, I think empathy, unfortunately, is like stopped meaning anything anymore. But, um, I think that one, one has to understand I’m a consumer of food. What is it like to be a courier? What is it like to, um, to think about from the other lens of a restauranteur who’s trying to think about consistency from the food delivery and go, Ooh, the food was soggy and it was living in the rain to the pristine, you know, plated innovation from the chef?
Brandi Sea: 00:32:30 Yeah.
Forest Young: 00:32:30 And so all these things are are very, very exciting. But back to your original question, I actually think that what design is going to grow to become is on-demand professional growth. Which is that the supply and demand cycles of let’s say a client needs something, hey, I have a brief, I’m not really happy with where my business is going. Hey, designer, can you fix it? Can you help me avoid a near term catastrophe? As the cycles get faster and faster and faster, I think it almost becomes not too dissimilar from other on-demand companies like ride-hailing or food delivery where you have a question, hey, I want to find a, a great vendor in my area or I want to find the best vendor in the United States. Boom here’s the answer because you know, we just saw this lovely presentation of the kit is okay, now we could possibly aggregate that information. So the moment that you have a question, remember that you have been thinking about asking a question. You already had the answer. And so you.
Brandi Sea: 00:33:23 Trustworthy resource.
Forest Young: 00:33:23 You were in charge of your own trajectory through incredibly narrowing on demand cycles of you have a need, your need is met, and so then, therefore, you don’t lose momentum towards your trajectory. And I feel like an AIGA’s role perhaps is to just eliminate the friction to your path towards total agency.
Brandi Sea: 00:33:42 Yeah. And I think that they’re definitely well on their way to that in, in just the way that they’re built already. And having all of these chapters in all these cities, it’s like, okay, now we just need to figure out what that, what that trajectory will look like for each individual place and how they can facilitate those transitions into that space. Um, in Albuquerque we are, um, a lot more becoming, um, a tech startup place. And so figuring in how design fits into that space and like outside of just like, okay, I have this startup, I need a logo and, or I have this, this web app idea, can you like put cool colors on it? Like where we’re designed, like my goal for design at least, um, personally, because I do design strategy is to be like designers are problem solvers, right? So like how do we project that outwardly so that people see us as like this thing where they can access a problem solver.
Forest Young: 00:34:44 Yes.
Brandi Sea: 00:34:45 You know, as opposed to just like, oh, you do design, oh, I need a logo. And that’s just like the end of how they see us. So, um, yeah,
Forest Young: 00:34:55 I feel like designers are are undervalued and overvalued. And I’ll qualify the statement by saying that I think that the design bubble is about to burst where we are almost a kind of ending an era of like design-obsessed kind of fanaticism of like over hiring designers, uh, in, in, in house communities. Um, um always attributing something to a design when actually it might be an underlying business problem and might have been, you know, some type of, you know, behavioral scandal and, but the design, the logo is the easiest thing to tribute.
Brandi Sea: 00:35:32 It’s a scapegoat.
Forest Young: 00:35:32 So in some ways it’s saying, oh well will the logo cause this? I’m exaggerating, but in some ways, no. Like designers are problem solvers and maybe the best at acutely being sensitive to what the need is or being sensitive to the need and then the fastest way to solve it.
Brandi Sea: 00:35:47 Right.
Forest Young: 00:35:47 And so then all of a sudden that is uploading the value of what a designer is to being, you know, somebody who can execute a brief that is maybe formal an orientation to one that is more strategic. And I think that there is a place for everyone as the people who just want to make this people who want to make think. And there’s people who just want to think.
Brandi Sea: 00:36:03 Right.
Forest Young: 00:36:04 And I think that that when the moment that continuum broadens so that people don’t feel like they were adversarial relationships between, you know, human-centered design, design thinking and like, you know, like high craft and like those aren’t antithetical and a zero-sum game.
Brandi Sea: 00:36:17 Right.
Forest Young: 00:36:17 It’s just that we have an ever-widening sea of what we’re calling design. I think we just need to become more comfortable with it
Brandi Sea: 00:36:22 Yeah. More accommodating. Where would you say you fall in that, like think, make think or make, if you had to put yourself into a category?
Forest Young: 00:36:30 yeah. So I think, yeah, I think it’s, I think all of them. Yeah. I see. Um, I actually really, really enjoy, um, thinking about arriving at an idea that is the easiest tangible bridge of a strategy. That’s what excites me. It’s like, is this more like a, you know, a trolley car on rails going up a steep incline or is this like, you know, a, uh, an air hockey puck that’s gliding around and ricocheting and thinking about it from, um, almost like what is the soul, the spirit of something and then it gets into like overweight with the typeface and, and what does that mean? Is it more of an erectile linear curvature? But that kind of space in between, um, I love and cherish. Um, but then, of course, I also love the end, you know, Ta-Da!
Brandi Sea: 00:37:14 And I think that’s why we’re both going to be really good friends from here on out because I feel the same way. Yeah, I love really thinking deeply about things, but, and the why behind every single thing that I do, and crafting this, this thing in the end that you can hand off, but that is not only beautiful but has meaning and purpose and reasons behind it. And kinda can stand on its own outside of you having to present it and defend it. I think that’s really valuable.
Forest Young: 00:37:41 I think that in some ways, you know, we’re, we’re creating a, we’re creating virality. I would call it like strategic viralocity where people say, oh, like I understand, oh my gosh, there’s an arrow inside of FedEx. And it’s like, oh, because it’s probably about like getting somewhere and people are literally articulating value propositions. Like on the street we were like, what is Nike about? Oh, it’s about like, you know, just do it like Kinda like anybody could be an athlete. And it’s like that’s kind of close their value proposition, in essence, saying that people on the street are really talking about value propositions when like, you know, 15 years ago that even know what a font was. And so everyone’s getting sharper but it’s also being that designers can be more autonomous and that kind of on-demand cycle.
Brandi Sea: 00:38:18 Yeah, it is. It is sort of touchy for me in some ways, just to make sure that the quality, the level of quality is still there because there because it is so democratized.
Forest Young: 00:38:29 Yes.
Brandi Sea: 00:38:29 With the software. And you know, I had a client on almost client recently who approached someone who was going refer them to me and was like, well just tell me what software I need and then I won’t have to hire her. And it was just like, I mean, you know, I know this is kind of always been a problem where we’ve been devalued, but where the ups of the democratization of design are, everyone kind of is aware of it and like kind of appreciates it. It sort of like devalues to a point where we have to be really careful that we’re not just sort of saying, okay, you call yourself a designer, you are a designer when they actually don’t really understand sort of the workings of it.
Forest Young: 00:39:09 Yes.
Brandi Sea: 00:39:09 And, and the, the thought that needs to go into it. And it’s like I got Photoshop for my birthday, I’m a designer.
Forest Young: 00:39:16 Yes.
Brandi Sea: 00:39:16 So I know that that’s sort of like a touchy, touchy realm, but I think that AIGA can play like a really huge part in sort of facilitating that and going, oh that’s awesome that you got Photoshop, let us help you learn how to use that and let us help you understand the design thinking that goes into the things you do with that awesome software or something.
Forest Young: 00:39:37 I think it’s a, it’s a really great point. I’d say no, it’s like the joke of like there’s like there was like the make the logo bigger joke, which was like 15 years ago and I’d be like five years ago. It’s like, um, my brother’s a graphic designer and it’s the kind of like, oh the democratization has eliminated perceived value but I actually think that it’s going to intensify before it ameliorates and I think part of that is going to be, it is a general concern about AI and I remember hearing a lecture and and the guy was making some pretty smart points about if you teach basically like, you know like the golden rule and basically like kind of type design. If you put like, you know, you like gave the Robert Bringers program, you know, could an AI basically create a set of infinitely formerly beautiful things? And the answer is probably, but the danger is, is designers just become only executor’s. You know, to me it’s like I’m, it’s like, you know, people painting, you know, um, you know, I don’t know smiley faces on a bomb. It’s like a designer can not be relegated to surface.
Brandi Sea: 00:40:34 Right. Absolutely.
Forest Young: 00:40:35 And too superficial, you know, decorative consumption.
Brandi Sea: 00:40:39 And that’s what people think we are.
Forest Young: 00:40:40 Yes. And designers, designers are going to be the one as we get into more advanced AI, like designers need to be people saying, hey, like that AI is an ableist or classist, racist. Like I’m going to have to be the guardian of the last stand. It’s like I’m going to have to be the person to like elements and it’s scary. But I think that designers are going to have to evolve into an elevated role of not only value creation in terms of what they provide as problem solvers, but also be sensitive to not everybody can go up that curve. Not Everybody can walk up these steps. Not everybody can see those colors. And I think that if designers don’t point that out then.
Brandi Sea: 00:41:19 Then no one will.
Forest Young: 00:41:19 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:41:19 Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you for us. It’s so nice to talk to you. I hope that we have many more conversations in the future and we’ll see you next time.
Forest Young: 00:41:27 Thank you so much.
Brandi Sea: 00:41:29 So that was Forest. He’s incredible. He’s a complete goofball. And then he goes completely 180 and is like so intelligent.
Michelle: 00:41:39 He’s so well-spoken.
Brandi Sea: 00:41:40 You can’t even believe it. You’re like, where did that come from? Like he was wearing socks over his sweatpants with like this crazy eighties pattern t-shirt.
Michelle: 00:41:49 Love it.
Brandi Sea: 00:41:49 Um, I think I did get a selfie with him for, this is the only person that I took a picture with of the people I interviewed. Um, and so when we went back to, to Hugh, he was like, hey, how did it go? And I was like, it was awesome. And then before we got there, um, Forest was like, hey, say this thing, the thing you just told me, I don’t remember what it was now, but it was like something goofy and he was like, oh. I said, because community, he was like, this is amazing. This is a great conversation. We just barely met and had such great conversation. I was like, yeah, because community and he goes, okay, we’re going to walk over to Hugh and you’re going to say what you just said and then I’m going to do this like dance, move pose thing after you save because community and that’ll be like boom. And I was like, okay. So we went and did it and he did the thing. It was like so ridiculous and he was like, oh my gosh, you two are dangerous together. It, it’s like the best moment. So it was so much fun. So.
Michelle: 00:42:43 That’s so good. He’s seems.
Brandi Sea: 00:42:44 So that’s Forest.
Michelle: 00:42:44 Like a wealth of knowledge.
Brandi Sea: 00:42:46 He is and he was great.
Michelle: 00:42:47 And very well-spoken.
Brandi Sea: 00:42:48 But also super fun.
Michelle: 00:42:50 Good. Yeah. He seemed like a fun guy to talk about. I learned a lot. So.
Brandi Sea: 00:42:53 Good. I did too. It was great. Um, so the next person is, uh, Sarah Brooks. Um, I can’t remember how I ran into her. I think, uh, she was manning one of the tables or something. I could be wrong on this or someone introduced me. Anyways, I was introduced to her and, um, she said to me, Oh, I listened to the podcasts and I was like, really? I was like, yeah. Um, my good friend Karen told me to listen. I was like, Karen Hubma?
Michelle: 00:43:22 Oh my gosh, yes.
Brandi Sea: 00:43:24 She was like, yes, Karen Hibma. You did her interview. And I’ve been listening ever since and I love you guys. And I was like super flattered.
Michelle: 00:43:31 Thank you.
Brandi Sea: 00:43:32 Also sidebar, I met like three or four people that are fans of our show.
Michelle: 00:43:38 That’s so cool. Hi guys!Thanks for listening. You guys are great doing great things and we appreciate you.
Brandi Sea: 00:43:44 I know, it was so good. So she, she works in New York and um, we had some awesome conversations, um, leading up to this and then this and um, after this. So, um, she’s really sweet.
Michelle: 00:43:56 Another really great conversation.
Brandi Sea: 00:43:58 Another really good one.
Michelle: 00:43:58 I think people are gonna enjoy listening to. She, I feel like she has like flair.
Brandi Sea: 00:44:05 Yeah.
Michelle: 00:44:05 I feel like her, I understand why her and Karen got on so well. Like I, I love it.
Brandi Sea: 00:44:11 They have, they have some similar personalities.
Michelle: 00:44:12 They have like auras.
Brandi Sea: 00:44:15 Yeah, auras. That’s so right. So I told her before we started recording, I told her about my project for like people and how they’re named and how that frames you. And she was like, Oh, you know what, after we record I have to tell you this story, um, so her full name is Sarah Brooke Brooks.
Michelle: 00:44:30 What?
Brandi Sea: 00:44:31 Her Ha. Yeah, her and her husband.
Michelle: 00:44:34 Oh.
Brandi Sea: 00:44:34 Like did they.
Michelle: 00:44:35 Got it.
Brandi Sea: 00:44:36 Thing with, so her middle name is already Brooke. There was a thing where her husband and her basically came up with their own last name.
Michelle: 00:44:44 Got It.
Brandi Sea: 00:44:44 Type of thing when they got married. It wasn’t his, and it wasn’t necessarily hers, but she was like, I’ve been thinking about just leaving it there. Her Brooke Brooks.
Michelle: 00:44:51 Heck yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:44:52 I was like, oh, that’s amazing.
Michelle: 00:44:54 That sounds like a really good name.
Brandi Sea: 00:44:56 So cool. So anyway, she’s really sweet and um, here’s our chat.
Brandi Sea: 00:45:03 All right, so I’m sitting here with my second interview of the AIGA design leadership conference. That’s probably not one that’s probably not right. Sarah Brooks, can you tell me a little bit about you and what you’re doing here? First of all?
Sarah Brooks: 00:45:20 Sure. Hi Brandi.
Brandi Sea: 00:45:22 Hi.
Sarah Brooks: 00:45:22 I’m so glad we’re talking.
Brandi Sea: 00:45:24 I’m so, I’m such a spazz right now. I’m sorry.
Sarah Brooks: 00:45:27 It’s been a lot right?
Brandi Sea: 00:45:28 But I love it.
Sarah Brooks: 00:45:29 There’s a lot
Brandi Sea: 00:45:29 I’m so amped up by it.
Sarah Brooks: 00:45:31 Oh, I know.
Brandi Sea: 00:45:31 When I get home I’m just going to die. But like right now I’m feeling very energized and very motivated and all the ideas, you know, just moving stuff. It’s a conference.
Sarah Brooks: 00:45:41 Things are happening. A lot is going on.
Brandi Sea: 00:45:43 Yeah. So tell me about yourself.
Sarah Brooks: 00:45:46 I am a service designer and a design researcher and a fine artist.
Brandi Sea: 00:45:52 Oh, what kinds
Sarah Brooks: 00:45:54 I make a lot of things.
Brandi Sea: 00:45:54 Paints?
Sarah Brooks: 00:45:54 Mixed media.
Brandi Sea: 00:45:55 Oh, I love mixed media.
Sarah Brooks: 00:45:57 Yeah, I used to do installations and it’s been so long and now the time that I have to make art, it’s like whittled down to somewhere between Friday night and Sunday evening, you know?
Brandi Sea: 00:46:08 If you want to sleep even less.
Sarah Brooks: 00:46:11 There’s not a lot of time to realize artworks and think them through in the way that I used to be able to. So, um, now I do smaller things, but I really like making paper silkscreening, sowing, soft sculpture.
Brandi Sea: 00:46:27 So lots of things.
Sarah Brooks: 00:46:28 All these things. Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:46:29 My husband just built me, well not just. I feel bad. Two years ago he made me a silk screen printing set up.
Sarah Brooks: 00:46:35 Oh really?
Brandi Sea: 00:46:36 We just haven’t had long story short, we don’t have space in our garage for it, but I have like all the inks and the screens and like all this stuff. So.
Sarah Brooks: 00:46:43 Do you love it?
Brandi Sea: 00:46:43 It’s in the works? I do. Yeah. I really enjoy it. I also, he bought me this huge canvas to paint on.
Sarah Brooks: 00:46:51 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:46:51 Um, I think it’s so valuable to do more than just like digital things because if you’re not as great, you’re really not as creative if you’re just always using the mouse. I feel like.
Sarah Brooks: 00:47:03 Yeah, I like the tactile things.
Brandi Sea: 00:47:05 Yeah.
Sarah Brooks: 00:47:06 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:47:06 I don’t like getting dirty.
Sarah Brooks: 00:47:06 My grandmother.
Brandi Sea: 00:47:08 I do like making the thing, I do like the end results
Sarah Brooks: 00:47:13 That’s funny. Yeah. Like at work I like everything to be very tidy and even in my home, everything has its place. Um, but when I’m in the art studio actually I love making a huge mess. But um,
Brandi Sea: 00:47:27 So what brought you here? Sorry. I’m like the queen of like sidebars.
Sarah Brooks: 00:47:29 I know I’m like, we just like about our, let’s do it.
Brandi Sea: 00:47:35 Sure. I mean design is art.
Sarah Brooks: 00:47:38 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:47:38 AIGA supports all sorts of creatives.
Sarah Brooks: 00:47:40 How we live our lives is, is art. Hopefully. Uh, I’m a national board member.
Brandi Sea: 00:47:46 And we met just yesterday. Which seems like a week ago.
Sarah Brooks: 00:47:49 I know, so much has happened, but I’m so excited to me because I love your podcast and the way you have conversations with people.
Brandi Sea: 00:47:56 Like you. You are now part of this conversation.
Sarah Brooks: 00:47:59 I’m so honored.
Brandi Sea: 00:47:59 I feel like design is just a conversation. It’s a conversation with the viewer using all sorts of different visual tools.
Sarah Brooks: 00:48:08 It is.
Brandi Sea: 00:48:09 Yeah. So what do you do on the board, the national board, how do you.
Sarah Brooks: 00:48:15 Our board terms are three years.
Brandi Sea: 00:48:16 Okay
Sarah Brooks: 00:48:17 So I’ve served two years on the national board and my dear friend and mentor, Karen Hibma is the one who pulled me into the AIGA family.
Brandi Sea: 00:48:28 Oh yay! Karen Hibma! I’m so excited. Yeah, we had, I don’t remember if I hadn’t a steel trap for brain. I could tell people what episode that is, but you can just search Karen Hibma on my website.
Sarah Brooks: 00:48:37 Lovely human beings.
Brandi Sea: 00:48:40 She’s amazing.
Sarah Brooks: 00:48:40 Amazing. She pulled me into the San Francisco chapter when I lived there and I became the sustainability chair and I produced the compost modern conference in 2014 that Phil Hamlets started.
Brandi Sea: 00:48:52 That’s a big deal.
Sarah Brooks: 00:48:52 Yeah, we did a theme around resilience and designing for resilience. And what does that mean? How do we start to think about that sort of beyond sustainability, personal resilience or inner capacities as we deal with complex problems, we have new.
Brandi Sea: 00:49:07 New ways.
Sarah Brooks: 00:49:08 Skills, new ways, right. New modes that, that was a really great experience. I um, it was a lovely on board in the community and I lived in San Francisco and worked there for a long time. And then, um, I moved to New York City a year ago. Um,
Brandi Sea: 00:49:27 I love New York. My cohost, if she was here, would say she wishes she was in New York.
Sarah Brooks: 00:49:32 I was born and raised there, but then I have most of my career out in San Francisco. So it’s really fun to be back home and, um, to start to connect with design community in New York and see what’s going on there.
Brandi Sea: 00:49:44 How was, how were the communities different? Like are, were there more similarities than differences? Cause that’s complete opposite coasts of each other.
Sarah Brooks: 00:49:54 I know, but honestly I feel like they have so much in common.
Brandi Sea: 00:49:57 More commonalities.
Sarah Brooks: 00:49:58 Absolutely.
Brandi Sea: 00:49:58 That’s good. That’s the way it should be
Sarah Brooks: 00:50:00 Oh yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:50:00 Community should be, have some sort of thread.
Sarah Brooks: 00:50:04 Consistency.
Brandi Sea: 00:50:04 Yeah. And like you could ideally you could jump from AIGA New York to AIGA, I don’t know, Seattle, Alaska, wherever and feel like you’re still part of it.
Sarah Brooks: 00:50:16 Yeah. I love being part of it and the communities in a period of transition, which probably every community always is, but we’re at a big point of transition, which is exciting. And so the board is very much um, working to understand how we flip our model to, um, what has felt, I think as being something top-down to be way more bottoms up. So national, sort of a thin, thin layer of supporting infrastructure to all the work that happens at the chapters, you know, and every chapter has is doing what’s appropriate for that community, right? All the programming and kind of just what makes sense in that space.
Brandi Sea: 00:50:55 Yeah. So in terms of AIGA like what do you, how do you feel AIGA has kind of like grown you or what have you personally gotten out of AIGA?
Sarah Brooks: 00:51:07 It’s so much about the relationships. I’m a community person.
Brandi Sea: 00:51:12 Yeah.
Sarah Brooks: 00:51:12 Yeah. And.
Brandi Sea: 00:51:15 This is a new relationship! I’m excited.
Sarah Brooks: 00:51:15 I know, me too.
Brandi Sea: 00:51:17 Yeah.
Sarah Brooks: 00:51:19 I love meeting people. Um, and then being able to connect dots, you know.
Brandi Sea: 00:51:25 Oh, Hugh Weber.
Sarah Brooks: 00:51:25 Oh yeah, yes, yes.
Brandi Sea: 00:51:27 Mister connect the dots.
Sarah Brooks: 00:51:28 We have that in common. I think we started on the board actually around the same time and that was one of our earliest conversations was about how much we, we both loved to do this. And um, yeah, nothing makes me more excited than having a conversation with somebody who tells me they’re interested in something. And then I think, oh,
Brandi Sea: 00:51:48 Oh, I know someone else.
Sarah Brooks: 00:51:49 I know. Yeah. A person who is really thinking about that question or needs that thing or is looking for somebody, you know, to explore with.
Brandi Sea: 00:51:58 I don’t think everybody had introduction though. Hmm. I think that there are people who have the connecting skill and there are people that need to be connected like personality-wise or whatever it is. I just, I think that like people like you and Hugh Weber, um, and I, I feel like if I know somebody, I’ll, I’ll recommend them, but I don’t necessarily always in person to person things. Maybe see those connections wherein design and, and concept and strategy I can see through lines like in lots of things. So, but I think that’s a really awesome skill to have and it’s really great that you use that in this kind of space of creative community to really grow that even more.
Sarah Brooks: 00:52:38 Yeah. I love it. And I feel like this community helps me grow my creative confidence and that’s so important, isn’t it?
Brandi Sea: 00:52:46 Oh so many things.
Sarah Brooks: 00:52:47 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:52:47 So many things. So, um,
Sarah Brooks: 00:52:51 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:52:51 I’ve been talking to other people a little bit. Um, but I asked Forest this question like what do you think is the future? What does the future look like for designers? Or how, how will design and designers like change the future, change the world. What do you think our role is in this kind of ambiguous future we see as creatives? What is, what do you feel like is like our role in this, this building of the future?
Sarah Brooks: 00:53:23 Yeah. I think we have a large role to play because we always have, you know, work, we are good at imagining things that haven’t happened yet. Products that no one’s created yet. Services that people don’t quite realize they need yet or they do, they’re saying it in their own way, but designers are able to, to hear,
Brandi Sea: 00:53:45 Make it happen.
Sarah Brooks: 00:53:45 Yeah. Take, take what they’re hearing, what, what people are saying like that. Use those like antenna
Brandi Sea: 00:53:52 Yeah. The feelers
Sarah Brooks: 00:53:52 Right? All that stuff. All the feelers to feel all the feels. It is actually, I think quite a lot about incorporating emotion into the process.
Brandi Sea: 00:54:00 Yes.
Sarah Brooks: 00:54:00 Um, and tuning into, um, yeah. What’s being, what’s being called forth, um, on an emotional level from people and in creating containers and shapes of work.
Brandi Sea: 00:54:12 Yeah.
Sarah Brooks: 00:54:13 Right. For that future to emerge in. So that all sounds very nebulous.
Brandi Sea: 00:54:19 It does, I mean a little bit it.
Sarah Brooks: 00:54:21 And it is, but I think it’s, yeah. Um, it’s interesting. I know people who work very specifically in the field of futures and forecasting and they’re all about scenario planning. They take people through exercises around, you know, this is a preferred future. This is just topic, future, all these varieties of helping, taking people through a process of imagining what that looks like. And.
Brandi Sea: 00:54:47 Kind of problem-solving.
Sarah Brooks: 00:54:47 Playing it out. Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 00:54:49 Interesting.
Sarah Brooks: 00:54:50 In terms of is that the future we want, you know, thinking about what kinds of conditions are you creating, um, and kind of fomenting and so what kind of future does that create? And is that the one that we want? So suffice it to say that I think we have a responsibility because designers as in terms of a broad category of design are creating all the things that will manifest.
Brandi Sea: 00:55:15 Yes, we are, we are creating all of the things.
Sarah Brooks: 00:55:17 Well, all the things that are manifested, right?
Brandi Sea: 00:55:20 Yeah.
Sarah Brooks: 00:55:21 Through craft on in one form or another are created by designers. So.
Brandi Sea: 00:55:25 Yeah, creatives.
Sarah Brooks: 00:55:25 Yes.
Brandi Sea: 00:55:26 Even if you don’t consider yourself a designer, you know, that whole thing.
Sarah Brooks: 00:55:30 Yeah
Brandi Sea: 00:55:30 Yeah.
Sarah Brooks: 00:55:30 We’re shaping, we’re shaping the future. Always. Like step-by-steps so I think we have to be cognizant of that and take that responsibility seriously. And uh, we were talking very much about that in this design and ethics workshop.
Brandi Sea: 00:55:46 Yeah.
Sarah Brooks: 00:55:47 What’s our, what is our ethical role as this, as the future is unfolding emerging, we’re all being pulled along into it.
Brandi Sea: 00:55:56 Yeah. I don’t think that it’s funny you say that because it just occurred to me that in this world of, um, where the software is available to anybody to design and quote-unquote be a designer and I’m not putting down anybody that, you know, is self-taught or anything like that. But these are the kind of things that I don’t think many designers, especially many self-made designers understand about the responsibility. Like it’s not just about making something look pretty, like even even legible or even creating like a good message. We have a huge responsibility like if we do something poorly or if we, if it’s, you know, on one end if, if the exit sign is not right, like people could die, you know, on another end you know, you might buy the wrong medicine or you know, like there’s just so many, you know, and that’s even just on like the product sort of, you know, environmental design side that there’s a whole other level to like, you know, appealing to different audiences and making sure that you’re being equal to, you know, various ethnicities and all the stuff. There’s so much involved that I don’t, that I am not sure, and this may need to be a bigger conversation. Something I hadn’t really remembered to think to talk about is the importance of how much responsibility is kind of on our shoulders as the people that put out the things. So.
Sarah Brooks: 00:57:27 I think that’s why the design futures work, um, that the design educators community has been grappling with and shaping over the last couple of years is really interesting cause they’re looking holistically at the designer of the future and education for the designer of the future because the world is so complex now and designers are being asked to take on more and more complex challenges and wanting to.
Brandi Sea: 00:57:56 Yeah, this isn’t the madmen world anymore. Where it’s like art director goes here and make me a thing and they hand over the thing and then they’re done.
Sarah Brooks: 00:58:03 Yeah. How are we honing our abilities to really think in systems, you know, we’re doing work that happens in communities that affects ecologies. We need to be thinking about these contacts.
Brandi Sea: 00:58:21 The infrastructure of the creative experience. I don’t know. Those are a lot of big words, but you know what I mean.
Sarah Brooks: 00:58:28 I do.
Brandi Sea: 00:58:29 All right, well I will, I want to keep talking with you more, but I think we have to get to another session.
Sarah Brooks: 00:58:34 We do.
Brandi Sea: 00:58:35 So we should probably go. But Sarah, thank you so much for talking with me. I hope that we actually can talk about this more in the future.
Sarah Brooks: 00:58:41 Me too.
Brandi Sea: 00:58:42 In person
Sarah Brooks: 00:58:42 I think a lot of people.
Brandi Sea: 00:58:42 Preferably, but.
Sarah Brooks: 00:58:44 Yeah that would be great.
Brandi Sea: 00:58:44 Also, you know, over the phone would be great. But I think that there’s just so many good conversations that need to happen around this and I, I hope that we get have them. So thank you.
Sarah Brooks: 00:58:52 Me Too. And a lot of people here have a lot of great wisdom to share on it, so.
Brandi Sea: 00:58:56 Thank you so much.
Sarah Brooks: 00:58:57 Thank you. Talk to you later.
Brandi Sea: 00:59:00 So that was fun. She’s, she’s really sweet and very artistic and um, she wants us to come see her in New York sometime. Like.
Michelle: 00:59:10 Um tomorrow or?
Brandi Sea: 00:59:10 I told her anytime.
Michelle: 00:59:11 I was just looking, I don’t know if I sent this to you.
Brandi Sea: 00:59:16 You’re always just looking.
Michelle: 00:59:17 I know I’m always just looking at plane tickets to New York. Always. I’m my Brooklyn Shirt today. Um sorry if you could hear that microphone. I was just looking at tickets to New York in February just because I always like go that far out just to see. I found round trip tickets for $173.
Brandi Sea: 00:59:36 February is open for me. Let’s go.
Michelle: 00:59:38 Gosh.
Brandi Sea: 00:59:38 We’re gonna have this.
Michelle: 00:59:40 Money.
Brandi Sea: 00:59:40 We’re going to continue to have this conversations off air.
Michelle: 00:59:41 Part of me was like you have a credit card, Michelle, just use it. And I’m like, no, 18% interest, no!
Brandi Sea: 00:59:47 But it’s not a lot of money.
Michelle: 00:59:49 I know it’s really cheap.
Brandi Sea: 00:59:50 There’s not a lot of interest on that much money.
Michelle: 00:59:51 But then you have to get an Airbnb and then feed yourself.
Brandi Sea: 00:59:57 We need to talk about this later.
Michelle: 00:59:57 And my kid is in school.
Brandi Sea: 00:59:57 I know about four people in New York that we can stay with. So we’ll just talk after.
Michelle: 01:00:02 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:00:02 Okay.
Michelle: 01:00:02 Okay.
Brandi Sea: 01:00:03 So last but certainly not least is, um, she has become my friend Ashleigh Axios.
Michelle: 01:00:13 Another really cool Forest, Sarah Brooke Brooks, and Ashleigh, Ashleigh Axios.
Brandi Sea: 01:00:18 Yeah. So.
Michelle: 01:00:18 These’s cool names.
Brandi Sea: 01:00:19 She and her husband also came up with their own last name because she didn’t want his, and she didn’t want him to have to take hers. They like did some research on like Greek meanings of like names and stuff. I don’t remember exactly what their name means, but Axios is all their.
Michelle: 01:00:34 Strong.
Brandi Sea: 01:00:35 And it’s pretty great.
Michelle: 01:00:36 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:00:36 And Actually Ashleigh Axios.
Michelle: 01:00:38 Heck.
Brandi Sea: 01:00:39 That name.
Michelle: 01:00:40 That is cool.
Brandi Sea: 01:00:41 I know. So, um, she barely touches on it. Um, because it’s kind of like.
Michelle: 01:00:47 Personal, it’s her story.
Brandi Sea: 01:00:49 Not that, but like overdone is like what she, where she came from. Sorry, I’m beating around the bush. She was in charge of, of design for the Obama Administration.
Michelle: 01:00:59 Yes.
Brandi Sea: 01:00:59 And she barely touches on it, but it’s a huge deal. Yeah.
Michelle: 01:01:03 Obvious like that campaign was huge because of what it looked like.
Brandi Sea: 01:01:08 And it was while he was in the White House. She like was in all of that stuff.
Michelle: 01:01:14 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:01:14 So it’s a big deal. And um, she is super fun and super cute and really stylish and um, she’s very much, um, she’s an introvert, but she has learned how to be extroverted.
Michelle: 01:01:32 One in the same, I get you. Go home and take a nap.
Brandi Sea: 01:01:35 She’s so much fun Yeah. Yeah. So, um, we had a great conversation and I hope you guys enjoy it.
Brandi Sea: 01:01:41 So I’m sitting here with Ashleigh Axios. She is the, correct me if I get this language wrong, incoming president, for AIGA um, national AIGA’s organization. So, um, I could probably give you like a really fancy introduction, but I’m just gonna let you talk about yourself some more since you haven’t done that at all this weekend.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:02:07 Um, I’m happy to give a quick intro. So yeah, I’m the incoming president or president-elect for AIGA the largest and oldest professional association for design.
Brandi Sea: 01:02:18 And the coolest.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:02:18 It definitely the coolest.
Brandi Sea: 01:02:20 Yeah.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:02:21 Um.
Brandi Sea: 01:02:21 In the world, right?
Ashleigh Axios: 01:02:23 Yeah, it is actually the largest and the coolest in the world.
Brandi Sea: 01:02:26 Yes.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:02:26 I don’t know if it’s gotten like a coolest in a world award yet, but that’s probably coming along.
Brandi Sea: 01:02:31 We just gave it one.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:02:31 Oh yeah
Brandi Sea: 01:02:31 we, we can do that. You’re the president almost. So you can say anything you want.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:02:36 That’s a conflict of interest though. I start giving myself an award.
Brandi Sea: 01:02:40 Just giving your organization award, so sorta.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:02:44 We’ll stretch it. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I’m um, I’m probably most known for my work working in the Obama White House. After that, I went on to work at automatic as a design exponent and head of the creative studio. I’m based in DC. Um, and I’m really, I like to think, advocate for design’s ability to break barriers and create positive social change. So, um, I’ve worked in a lot of different industries and done a lot of things, but um all hopefully, um, leaving a lasting and positive, um, impact.
Brandi Sea: 01:03:22 Yeah. What to this point has been sort of like your, your favorite quote unquote job? Like whether that’s been like being a board member of AIGA or whether that’s been automatic sitting on the couch designing with your cat or you know, being apart of, you know, the Obama administration, which is like very well known for the change, the shift in, you know, digital design stuff and all of that. And in an administration like that.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:03:50 Yeah, that’s a hard one to answer honestly. Cause I tend to think like, uh, I tend to think forward so much and it’s really hard for me to think that.
Brandi Sea: 01:03:58 Your favorite is the one you’re in now.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:04:00 Yeah, it’s like whatever I’m doing right now. And the things I’m like planning the things I’m like starting to develop and cultivate. Yeah. Um, and that’s probably what’s propelled me to do so much. Um, but like I’ve, I’ve also gotten so much out of every job that I’ve had that it makes it challenging cause I, I wouldn’t have gotten the job at the White House. I don’t think if I hadn’t taken a kind of weird like, um, job at a startup that was like making organic plant food fertilizers and like factories in New Jersey and then yeah. And then worked in, um, you know, the PR space for a little while and then kind of, um, gone to a small design studio. Like they all kind of add up and give me more, um, skills and experience and shifted my point of view for the thing that’s, that’s next. So that’s sort of cop-out though.
Brandi Sea: 01:05:01 And sort of stepping stones.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:05:02 Yeah, that’s kind of a cop-out. Cause I totally didn’t answer your question.
Brandi Sea: 01:05:06 That’s like I don’t want to choose, so I’m just going to say you can have a favorite job. You can’t have a favorite kid.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:05:13 Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Well my favorite boss, even though he wasn’t my direct boss is Barack Obama. So it’s probably my favorite job.
Brandi Sea: 01:05:21 That’s kind of a big deal.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:05:22 They say they say that like you, when you leave, uh, when you leave a place, you’re actually like quitting your, your boss or whatever. You’re not quitting the job.
Brandi Sea: 01:05:30 Awe, that’s so sad.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:05:30 I know isn’t that right.
Brandi Sea: 01:05:31 Especially in that context. That’s like putting you mama, I’m quitting you for life. Oh, that’s so crazy. Um, so if everything in the future is your favorite thing, what w what is your vision of like the future for designers like, or what we can do for the future maybe?
Ashleigh Axios: 01:05:52 Yeah. Honestly, there’s so much right now. I, I, I think, I think back to my time in school in how kind of, honestly like lonely I felt working on like social good social impact types of projects that just felt like nobody was really doing that work. And it was, maybe it was just where it’s at, but the focus of design was on surface and appearance and kind of like this accolade level. And I think in a, in a weird way, with everything that’s happening politically now, designers are starting, there’s like a hunger across the entire design field to do really meaningful work and, um, to work together. And to share knowledge and to do everything with a much more value-centric, um.
Brandi Sea: 01:06:40 Purpose driven design.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:06:42 And a purpose. Yeah. And from a place of purpose. And that’s exciting for me because it’s like, it’s like my tribe maximize like it’s gonna be fully realized soon like I’m not alone and like
Brandi Sea: 01:06:54 I’m not sitting in the library in the corner by myself.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:06:56 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:06:56 With my research book.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:06:58 Like folks are like kind of coming into this are getting excited about this dorky stuff. The policy that like, you know, a few years ago people were not like talking about like immigration policy and now people are like, explain it to me. How can I design for it?
Brandi Sea: 01:07:13 Right. Because designers have to do.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:07:14 get involved.
Brandi Sea: 01:07:14 research in order to do good work. And so even if it’s something like policy, we have to be excited about it if we’re going to get behind it.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:07:21 Yeah. And we need those. We just need those connections. We need to be around people who, who think differently are working on different things so that we can learn from them. Designers aren’t really meant to ever work on things super solo. Sometimes you can respond to things as an artist and you go into reflective periods, but you’re like still responding to like an environment and real and people
Brandi Sea: 01:07:45 The communication aspect of it.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:07:47 Yeah
Brandi Sea: 01:07:47 Is really important, right?
Ashleigh Axios: 01:07:48 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:07:50 Because designers communicate visually. So if we can’t communicate with ourselves, I mean, I mean we could in the mirror, that’d be a little worrisome,
Ashleigh Axios: 01:07:58 Right. Like you’ve got it, you’ve got an audience. Like that’s where those, those um, arguments with the breakdown between artists and designers start to get really like frustrating sometimes. It’s like, yeah, artists have audiences too. And like also.
Brandi Sea: 01:08:11 Yeah.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:08:13 Um
Brandi Sea: 01:08:13 I know, can we talk about that for just a, like I kind of want to, I, I taught at an art school, um, and I was primarily just teaching design concepts to senior junior, senior designers. But, um, towards the end of every term we would have all the other, um, wow. My brain, the other degrees like in, uh, interior design and fine arts and all that, we would mix together towards the end and kind of like critique each other’s projects. And.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:08:40 That sounds like fun.
Brandi Sea: 01:08:42 Yeah. Because, yeah, it gives you an eye, you know, you can see what you can learn from each other and how you look at everything. So it was really great. But time and time again, it was like the, a lot of the fine artists wouldn’t have very good reasoning for why they did stuff because it’s like, well, it’s just my vision and it, it’s like they didn’t feel, you know, there was, there was definitely a point of contention between the designers because it, and the art fine artists because it was sort of like, well, you can do whatever you want. We have to do something with purpose. And then it was like, whoa.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:09:17 Yeah. Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:09:19 So like what are your thoughts on that? I’m just this, this may or may not go into the interview. I just, I’m very curious.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:09:25 Yeah. I like, I guess I like it. I like almost don’t know where to start with it.
Brandi Sea: 01:09:31 Yeah. I kind of agree with like sort of with like fine artists don’t have an obligation to, to the audience the way that we do.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:09:39 You think that they don’t have an obligation.
Brandi Sea: 01:09:41 I don’t.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:09:43 Oh.
Brandi Sea: 01:09:43 I think they should, but I don’t think that a lot of them do.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:09:46 Oh that they actually do. Oh. I see.
Brandi Sea: 01:09:48 Because it’s like, this is me expressing myself. Right?
Ashleigh Axios: 01:09:51 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:09:51, As opposed to this, is me creating work to express a purpose.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:09:54 Oh I don’t even know how to fully unpack that one. Because if I look at design that way too. I’m like, there’s what we want designers and uh, our profession to practice and what we’ve spout but that doesn’t mean everybody is doing that. Right? So like if we start to look at what’s actually happening, I mean it’s a hot hot mess half of the time. Um, B because it’s so open and fluid and humans are like are humans. But um, yeah, like I, I do feel like artists should have like a sense of responsibility to their end, um, to their end audience. But I also understand that like kind of came up from that background when I was little and just wanted to, was creating as a means of self-expression. So I get, I get that too. But then as soon as you put it, as soon as you put it out into the world, as soon as you share it with somebody else,
Brandi Sea: 01:10:50 Your intention kind of goes away.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:10:53 Yeah. Like I guess I haven’t really said that or thought about it. Um, so deeply. But like yeah, as soon as you share it with somebody else you are, that’s when the sense I think of responsibility comes into play.
Brandi Sea: 01:11:05 Yes.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:11:05 And like if, if somebody is drawing for themselves, is it art? I don’t know. But like if you’re doing it and you’re never going to share it and it’s just, um, maybe it is. Maybe that’s just self-expression in some other way, arm or something.
Brandi Sea: 01:11:21 It’s art and I think that I think that everyone should always be aware of it. Even if you don’t, that doesn’t mean you should change what you’re doing because of how other people are seeing it. Especially if you have a message to send with what you’re making.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:11:33 Oh yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:11:34 But always be aware.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:11:36 Yes.
Brandi Sea: 01:11:37 Of the viewer. And I do think that that is something that designers are inherently taught to be good at is to be aware of the viewer or I’m not sure that fine artists have.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:11:47 I think that’s true.
Brandi Sea: 01:11:48 The same benefit of that education perhaps.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:11:51 Yeah, absolutely.
Brandi Sea: 01:11:52 So, sorry, that was a weird sidebar.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:11:54 No, that’s cool though. I haven’t really thought about that before. So it’s kind of fun to talk through.
Brandi Sea: 01:11:59 Yeah. All the weird deep thoughts that creatives have when they
Ashleigh Axios: 01:12:03 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:12:03 Can’t sleep, right?
Ashleigh Axios: 01:12:04 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:12:05 What is life? What is a heart
Ashleigh Axios: 01:12:07 When I go down like a rabbit hole of like googling things, but where did that word even come from? And now like I can, yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:12:13 Yes.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:12:14 Just keep going. But.
Brandi Sea: 01:12:15 Yeah. So back to like the future of designers. Like what, what does the designer of the future look like to you? Not, not like obviously like physical appearance or anything like that, but like what sort of things are we doing in the world in 10 15 years? Even not too far out in the future.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:12:33 Yeah. I think we’re now, we’ve gotten like acclimated to not being like the folks who are setting type of their folks that do that. Right? And we were like, used to designing systems in like a very tool based way. And we don’t tend to think of it as like the industrial revolution, but it kind of is, it’s like old tools that help us do things a little more efficient.
Brandi Sea: 01:12:55 Yeah.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:12:56 And I feel like we’re ramping up into the next phase now where we’re going to have like mastered designers shaping AI. I want that sounds like the answer that I meant to be like 10 x designer or something crazy like that. That’s a whole thing. But like, like shaping how like AI functions to like work beyond our own like cognitive capacity. Like we haven’t had that before. So I think that’s going to start coming into play and we’ll have more like design emphasis, um, and kind of cross over like hyper specialties between social scientists and, um, design, um, fields and areas of expertise. So like we have human-computer interaction now, but, um, you know, the kind of next-level versions of that crossover into these different sectors. Um, that might be more specific than what you’re talking about, right?
Brandi Sea: 01:13:56 No that, yeah, I mean
Ashleigh Axios: 01:13:58 Just some examples like.
Brandi Sea: 01:14:00 Some examples of like what you’ve thought about, you know, and I kind of hope that the future is, you know, I feel like we are definitely being more appreciated as creatives. Like people are starting to see design in systems like you said, or design and technology and they’re finally going, oh, someone had to make that. Um, but I, I’m also hoping that that like our role is like elevated in this space of understanding that we on a lot of levels are also psychologists or sociologists or, you know, color Ologists, like all the diff, there’s so many levels to what we do that contribute to that end thing that we make. And I, I mean, I work on this podcast, I work as, uh, as what I do at design strategist to help people understand that. But I hope that 10 15 years in the future, it’s not so hard for designers to be like, I’m worth this because I do a lot of things that I actually had to figure out in order to like better the world through understanding how people think and act. And that’s a big deal.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:15:04 It is. I will point out though, I think like the, we may be like in a, I don’t even know how to phrase this, but like a, a peak period of like generalists for design cause so much technology evolved at once that like you can like you got photoshops which the illustrator like you’ve got, you had these tools suddenly and we’re, we expanded into so many areas that I, I think that does have its own value, but the, even that like hyper-specialized value, I think that’ll start to emerge more and um, we’ll still be the things that you’re talking about, like the like intersection between, you know.
Brandi Sea: 01:15:45 Art and science.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:15:45 Anthropology. Yeah. And, and being a designer, but like even those, even when it’s like they, they’ve got their niche.
Brandi Sea: 01:15:53 Yeah.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:15:54 That, that one tiny area.
Brandi Sea: 01:15:56 The human factor.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:15:56 Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:15:57 The thing that maybe the machine can’t replicate.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:16:01 Yeah. Or like creating the system for, the machine training, training, um, these to work in a way that is supporting humans and not like blanket replacing.
Brandi Sea: 01:16:14 Not taking over the world.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:16:17 Not taking over. And I like say that my concepts. I’m like, I don’t want to talk about that. I think I brought that up and I regret it.
Brandi Sea: 01:16:28 Shame on you. I know, to be honest, like anytime it comes up I’m like, I can’t even, I can’t like I want to cry just thinking about a robot taking my job. Like can robots create beauty? I don’t know. Maybe they can someday like that’s scaring me and I don’t want to talk about it anymore.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:16:46 You know what’s lovely? I’m trying to think of something.
Brandi Sea: 01:16:51 Your dress. Your dress is lovely. Oh, Ashleigh is wearing a really cool, is this like a, a line, not a line, like a bodycon style, um, black dress with typography all over it. And I couldn’t tell you what typeface this is. I didn’t look that closely at it. It’s your dress. Do you know what typeface it is?
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:10 No, but I realize that I’m around a bunch of designers today and I probably should have.
Brandi Sea: 01:17:15 Just make one up.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:16 Just make one up?
Brandi Sea: 01:17:17 Just like pick a. It’s a really nice sans serif like monoline.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:21 You know what you should, you should all look up and see what the Calvin Klein logo is made out of. Cause I’m pretty sure it’s just cut up Calvin Klein logo.
Brandi Sea: 01:17:28 Is that what it is?
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:28 Yeah. But it’s cut up like.
New Speaker: 01:17:30 Randomly.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:31 Really randomly. So it feels more like.
Brandi Sea: 01:17:33 You’re right.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:33 Abstract and stuff. Yeah.
Brandi Sea: 01:17:35 I thought it was a, I mean.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:37 You thought it was random type.
Brandi Sea: 01:17:38 Just a really clever type dress.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:40 It’s very hard to find those.
Brandi Sea: 01:17:41 But it’s still clever, Calvin Klein.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:45 You’re like slightly disappointed.
Brandi Sea: 01:17:51 Just a little disappointed.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:51 I could hear it
Brandi Sea: 01:17:51 I wanted it before, I don’t want it anymore. Just kidding.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:53 They had ones that were like the name Calvin running straight down it, you know, kind of thing. I was like, that’s, that’s terrible.
Brandi Sea: 01:17:58 That’s not my dress.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:17:59 No, that’s not. And I’m like, oh my God, this is like something I would paint.
Brandi Sea: 01:18:05 I know! It’s a piece of art! It’s so fun. It’s like so interesting and great. So, oh man. Well, I don’t want to keep you too long. I’ve kept you already from probably something super important, madam president. So, um, I hope that we get to talk more about non-AI related things in the future.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:18:21 Yeah. Yeah. Please. Let’s do like a do-over and talk about others, other fun things.
Brandi Sea: 01:18:26 Just really pretty things like nice things.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:18:28 Yeah, like we need more of those positive conversations.
Brandi Sea: 01:18:31 I know. We really actually do.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:18:32 Environment now.
Brandi Sea: 01:18:33 Yeah, we do. So thank you so much and I hope that we have you here on Design Speaks again.
Ashleigh Axios: 01:18:38 Thank you for having me.
Brandi Sea: 01:18:40 I hope that her and I, um, and you will be able to have conversations with her in the future. It sounded like she just wanted to talk more. So, um, I’d love to have her back on, um, to talk about any number of things. Um, she’s, she’s really easy to talk to and she’s really sweet and um, also really fun. Um, we went to a bar after the whole thing for like the closing party and they had a DJ and dancing and all sorts of stuff. And I just really enjoy watching people, especially like, let’s be honest, every design event I’ve ever been to where there are designers and alcohol and dancing is the most entertainment I have had all year. So.
Michelle: 01:19:23 I love it. I love.
Brandi Sea: 01:19:23 It was so good. I was just like sitting on the side watching everybody dance. And then, um, at one point Forest came over and grabbed me and brought me over to this Prince song and then she was, Ashleigh was standing there and she was like, she was like, are you gonna dance more. And I was like.
Michelle: 01:19:41 I haven’t danced at all.
Brandi Sea: 01:19:41 It’s just not my thing. And she was like.
Michelle: 01:19:42 Oh my gosh.
Brandi Sea: 01:19:42 Can I get you another drink? I’m like it’s not gonna help me.
Michelle: 01:19:51 These are my people.
Brandi Sea: 01:19:51 Um, she’s great. And um, oh, another wealth of knowledge that I hope that we get to have her on more.
Michelle: 01:19:58 So many great conversations.
Brandi Sea: 01:20:01 I hope that you guys learned some stuff and.
Michelle: 01:20:02 I’m sure that the people were really easy to interview, but you did a really great job on the interviews too. Like they turned out really good.
Brandi Sea: 01:20:08 Oh yay. I was worried. I was like, I’ve never done it like this before. I’ve gotten like, okay at doing it over the phone. But.
Michelle: 01:20:14 Like in person, face to face.
Brandi Sea: 01:20:15 In-person, like yeah.
Michelle: 01:20:16 It’s like you’re on, but you’re also just having a conversation, but you need the information and you need them to talk.
Brandi Sea: 01:20:23 Yeah. Even this is the microphones is different.
Michelle: 01:20:26 Yeah. Cause I don’t have a microphone in your face like hiding it.
Brandi Sea: 01:20:28 I’m like, I feel a little strange doing it like this.
Michelle: 01:20:30 Like we’re too close.
Brandi Sea: 01:20:30 I know. So Michelle and I are recording with the same mix that I recorded with, um, at this conference.
Michelle: 01:20:35 Which will be great for consistency.
Brandi Sea: 01:20:38 Which is great.
Michelle: 01:20:38 Whatever we end up with.
Brandi Sea: 01:20:40 Here’s hoping this turns out great.
Michelle: 01:20:42 Yep.
Brandi Sea: 01:20:42 So, um, yeah, so I love AIGA. This conference was amazing. I learned a lot. Um, I am forever a champion of, of all of this. So, uh, you’ll be hearing more probably about AIGA and the steps that it’s taking to change things probably in the near future. Um, also we have some new Patreons to thank.
Michelle: 01:21:03 Which is awesome.
Brandi Sea: 01:21:05 That have happened just since we’ve been like not recording and like the past like three weeks, which is crazy.
Michelle: 01:21:10 We had, we had to hop on then they had to be like, please hurry.
Brandi Sea: 01:21:15 I know and I.
Michelle: 01:21:15 Give us information.
Brandi Sea: 01:21:16 You will get shout out on Instagram. Promise it’s going to happen.
Michelle: 01:21:20 Um, so new Patreon, Patreons?
Brandi Sea: 01:21:23 Patrons.
Michelle: 01:21:24 Literally every time I screw that up, new Patrons.
Brandi Sea: 01:21:27 It’s our thing now.
Michelle: 01:21:28 I know thanks. Whatever. Um, Dominic Sedillo. Hey!
Brandi Sea: 01:21:33 Hey, not only has not, so he and Hugh, fall into the category of guests and Patrons.
Michelle: 01:21:41 That’s so cool.
Brandi Sea: 01:21:41 Cause they have been guests and now they are Patrons.
Michelle: 01:21:44 Thank you for supporting and Allie Blackwood Mead, another really cool name. Blackwood Mead. I feel like.
Brandi Sea: 01:21:52 All the cool people support us.
Michelle: 01:21:52 I feel like she’s from Harry Potter and I want to be her friend so.
Brandi Sea: 01:21:57 It does sound like a Harry Potter name.
Michelle: 01:21:58 Yeah. Allie Blackwood Mead.
Brandi Sea: 01:22:00 Wow.
Michelle: 01:22:00 She’s on the quidditch team. She plays um, keeper.
Brandi Sea: 01:22:07 Allie, do you play quidditch? Please DM us.
Michelle: 01:22:07 Thank you for supporting us. We really appreciate any bit of support you guys give and we are especially thankful for you too.
Brandi Sea: 01:22:17 Like our little, our little commercial at the beginning says we can’t do it without you. We really can’t.
Michelle: 01:22:25 We really can’t.
Brandi Sea: 01:22:25 So, um, did you learn something from the interviews?
Michelle: 01:22:30 Um, I learned, well honestly I want to say that the, I think the most important thing I gathered is that you guys have a really great community. Um.
Brandi Sea: 01:22:41 Good. That’s that’s if you didn’t get anything else that awesome.
Michelle: 01:22:44 It doesn’t feel forced, it feels superorganic and meaningful, which I think is important for community. You can’t force it.
Brandi Sea: 01:22:53 And.
Michelle: 01:22:53 So.
Brandi Sea: 01:22:53 Really important about coming about that community is another thing is they are really going to push that you don’t have.
Michelle: 01:23:01 For standards. High standards.
Brandi Sea: 01:23:01 Well not just high standards. You don’t have to be a designer to be a member of AIGA.
Michelle: 01:23:07 That’s good.
Brandi Sea: 01:23:08 It’s about community.
Michelle: 01:23:10 Love it.
Brandi Sea: 01:23:11 And if you are in our community, you are a part of AIGA community.
Michelle: 01:23:15 That’s awesome.
Brandi Sea: 01:23:15 Michelle, you are part of AIGA.
Michelle: 01:23:18 Thank you. Thank you.
Brandi Sea: 01:23:20 So where can people find us?
Michelle: 01:23:21 People can find us on all forms of social media via your name. Go ahead and spell it.
Brandi Sea: 01:23:26 B R A N D I S E A.
Michelle: 01:23:29 It’s Brandi Sea. And you can also follow us on Instagram @designspeakspodcast. Um, you can follow us, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, whatever you want.
Brandi Sea: 01:23:39 Oh, I didn’t even tell you this. Surprise. I bought designspeakspodcast.com.
Michelle: 01:23:43 And designspeakspodcast.com. Coming soon.
Brandi Sea: 01:23:45 So right now it’s just going to my main website, but it will be a thing. Sorry about my website. Ps, it’s under construction. Links are not working, but it’s coming back, I promise.
Michelle: 01:23:57 In process.
Brandi Sea: 01:23:58 But designspeakspodcast.com will function.
Michelle: 01:24:01 Yes.
Brandi Sea: 01:24:01 Yes.
Michelle: 01:24:02 That’s exciting. Designspeakspodcasts.com Hey sounds nice. Sounds really nice. If you get any value from this show, Design Speaks. It would be amazing if you could give us a review five stars on iTunes. You can share an episode with a friend via iTunes or Spotify. We can also share directly to Instagram.
Brandi Sea: 01:24:24 Yeah.
Michelle: 01:24:24 Which I think it’s super fun.
Brandi Sea: 01:24:25 Yeah. Especially especially from it. From Spotify.
Michelle: 01:24:28 They made it too easy.
Brandi Sea: 01:24:29 Yeah.
Michelle: 01:24:30 Like I do it all the time.
Brandi Sea: 01:24:31 It’s great.
Michelle: 01:24:31 For like my songs.
Brandi Sea: 01:24:33 I know so do I.
Michelle: 01:24:33 Like, look what I’m listening to right now. Cry with me.
Brandi Sea: 01:24:36 I know. It’s so great.
Michelle: 01:24:37 I love it. Um, huge shout out and thank you to Vesperteen for allowing us to use his amazing song Shatter in the Night as the intro and outro to our podcast. Um, check out our show notes and the links and all of the things in our, what is it? Like the description, show notes, show notes, the description on iTunes.
Brandi Sea: 01:24:59 Transcription.
Michelle: 01:24:59 And your website, right?
Brandi Sea: 01:25:01 And my website.
Michelle: 01:25:02 Thanks Joelle for doing that, by the way. We always appreciate that. Um, yeah, I think that’s it, right?
Brandi Sea: 01:25:08 All right guys. We’ll try to be more, uh, concise next time we talked to more than we planned.
Michelle: 01:25:14 I know, especially with all those interviews, you guys are awesome for sticking it through. Even if you had to listen in like two, two sets, you know.
Brandi Sea: 01:25:21 Or two times speed like Kenny and we just sound like chipmunks. So good luck.
Michelle: 01:25:25 In that case. Whatever. Bye.