Episode 130, Season 1, Chapter 2 – Leatrice Eiseman: Transcription

BrandiSea: [00:00:00] Welcome to Design Speaks. The podcast that helps you discover uncommon inspiration so you can make more meaningful work. I’m Brandi Sea, my cohost is Julie Haider. Today we’ll be talking about how observing color in the world around you can keep you inspired. Stay tuned for that coming up later in the show.

Hi, Julie.

Julie: [00:00:30] Hey, Brandi. 

BrandiSea: [00:00:31] So Julie, how do you generally choose colors when you’re working on things? Be honest now. Be honest. 

Julie: [00:00:42] Um, I don’t know. I definitely, I’ll be honest, I don’t want to put as much thought into it as you do. Um, I don’t know. Sometimes it’s just, I feel like I gravitate towards certain colors naturally, um, and certain ones I’m like, yeah, I don’t really like that. But, um, at the same time, certain projects kind of require that you go in a certain direction color wise. So it’s kind of a mixture of things. 

BrandiSea: [00:01:05] Okay. Okay.  So you’re going to feel totally called out by the end of today’s episode, but, um, so I had the opportunity to talk to Leatrice Eiseman. I’m officially allowed to call her Lee.

Which is, like amazing. She said that, like, conversationally she’s allowed to be, she likes people to call her Lee. So I was like, Oh, yay. I’ve talked to you twice. We’re friends now. Um, she is the executive director of the Pantone Color Institute. Uh, which basically means. That she helps choose color of the year.

Like she, um, she does research and all sorts of things to, uh, help out at Pantone, which is the, the place for standardized color in the world. 

Julie: [00:01:47] Yeah. Which is so cool.

BrandiSea: [00:01:48] Which is incredible. Um, and she’s a really beautiful soul. She’s arguably, like, the foremost authority in the world of color. And apparently she and I have a lot in common, which just makes me really, really happy.

Julie: [00:02:02] That’s awesome. 

BrandiSea: [00:02:02] Um, she believes that anyone can develop a practice of awareness, even if you aren’t born with the gift to see inspiration everywhere. Um, which is really cool. She talks about the strategy behind understanding your color choices. Um, which I’m excited to hear what you think about that and why we should always question our reasons for our preferences.

Julie: [00:02:24] I’m really excited to hear this interview and, um, I just think it’s really interesting that we all kind of, like, associate certain colors with moods and feelings even though, um, like, we might have a little bit of variance there. But, like, in general, everybody thinks of certain colors a certain way, which is, like. What in our brain is wired that way.

BrandiSea: [00:02:43] Yeah. 

Julie: [00:02:43] It’s so cool. 

BrandiSea: [00:02:44] The color brain, I love it. So this week I was really inspired by–there’s a new podcast out. I don’t know how new it is. It’s pretty new. It’s called the 1619 podcast. And particularly this episode on the birth of American music. It’s really about the role of black music originally forged in slavery that basically then became the sound of freedom symbolically and artistically. It really goes from the slave who was singing, and legend goes that, that a man overheard him singing this song out in the field or whatever, and then took it to the stage, a white man took it to the stage and was kind of like being him in blackface.

And so it goes like from, from this all the way to like Motown records and how the music of America really has its roots in, in this whole thing. And it was just really, really well done. I’ve listened to this particular episode three times now.

Julie: [00:03:45] Oh, wow.

BrandiSea: [00:03:46] Just because it’s so interesting. And the, um, the host of this episode really takes a really interesting look at it and has some humor to throw in there.

And, you know, it can be a really heavy sort of topic, obviously, but, um, you know, that’s part of our heritage as America, whether we want to admit it or not. And so in, in all of that though, it was, it was really interesting to me and reminded me of how a style of music–taking from all of these things and all of this history as, like, your own personal style of design in a lot of ways. I mean, even photography, your own style of creativity, like what your work looks like in the end. Over time, our styles basically made from bits and pieces of other work that we’ve, 

Julie: [00:04:31] Yeah. For sure. 

BrandiSea: [00:04:32] Yeah. That we’ve either created or interpreted or seen. And then, eventually it comes to be something that can only be from you. Like it can only come from you.

Julie: [00:04:43] Right.

BrandiSea: [00:04:43] From the history of your own experiences, aspirations, outlook on life. And so I don’t know how, sometimes I don’t know how my brain works, where I go from like I’m listening to a podcast on music and slavery to like, wow, this really, this really actually works for like the creative life.

But that was, that’s just something that I’ve been really thinking a lot about. Is how, how to see this blend of musical styles and think about the work that we do the same way. Have you ever thought about like what sort of blends of things affects, like, your final outcome for, for an elopement maybe by the time you get out to Hawaii, like I know you’ve been doing a lot of research. Staying out till five. I mean up not out. Up till five in the morning. 

Julie: [00:05:32] Yes. Um, yes. Yeah. I, I actually do think about that from time to time especially. Um, I know in the first podcast we talked about, like, how I got to this point in my career and, like, where I’m at. Um, and it really is a lot of, like, all the different things in my life of, like, how I grew up in different stuff that, like, culminated to this.

BrandiSea: [00:05:56] Like all the rungs in the ladder. 

Julie: [00:05:57] Yeah, exactly. And so I think, like, the way I approach things as a creative comes from all of that stuff, like basically my history.

BrandiSea: [00:06:29] That was Les Champs Elysees by Pomplamoose, and John Schroeder, The other day, while I was on a run, I was listening to a French playlist and this song came on. It’s actually a really iconic French song. The original is actually by a guy named Joe Dassin, and I have heard this song more times than I can count and never thought to look up the lyrics until this day.

So when I got home, I looked them up and I love the sentiment behind them. So the first line says, I wandered the avenue with my heart open to the unknown, which really screams at me because this is, this is how I live my life. I, the creative lifestyle for me is about always being aware and ready for anything.

Having your heart and your mind open for inspiration, for motivation, for beauty, and all the things that you might see. In the sun, in the rain ,at noon or midnight, there is everything you want on the Champs Elysees. Which, for me was double awesome because I always feel like inspiration is everywhere. Obviously, when I was on the Champs Elysees in Paris, everything was inspiring. So that’s one. But second of all, the rain is super inspiring to me. I love rainy days the best of all. And as you will hear in today’s interview with Leatrice there is apparently a good reason for that.

Leatrice: [00:08:12] Hi, this is Lee. 

BrandiSea: [00:08:14] Hello Lee. May I call you Lee? It’s Brandi. How are you? 

Leatrice: [00:08:17] You may. I’m good. How are you? 

BrandiSea: [00:08:19] I’m so good. I’m so excited to have you on again. It’s been, it’s been a minute. 

Leatrice: [00:08:24] Yes, yes. 

BrandiSea: [00:08:26] So I feel like I’m so privileged now. I’ve had you on here twice, so I guess I earned the right to call you Lee, or does everyone call you Lee?

Leatrice: [00:08:35] Well, um, conversationally. Yeah. You know, in print it’s Leatrice, because that’s the name that appears on my books, but conversationally, everybody calls me Lee. So, please, call me Lee.

BrandiSea: [00:08:46] Well, from here on out it shall be Lee. 

Leatrice: [00:08:49] Yes, yes. 

BrandiSea: [00:08:50] By now I think everybody, well, anyone who should know, should know that the color of 2020 is classic blue.

What is the story that classic blue can tell us about this year and maybe about the start of this new decade in particular? How might it differ from the past decade color-wise, feeling-wise? 

Leatrice: [00:09:11] Well, it’s interesting that you bring that up. Uh, because our first color of the year, uh, actually 2020, we named it in the end of 2019.

But, uh, people were, were starting to call Pantone and ask, uh, what is the color of the new millennium? And, uh, and so we, uh, at that point came up with a, millennia–what we call the millennium blue–which was sort of like a powdery-sky-blue. And, uh, we chose that because it was the beginning of a new era, a new century. And, uh, and it represented blue in essence. The whole blue family speaks to sort of a tranquil state. Uh, and yet, still, it looks to the future because people attach it to the sky and, you know, unending vistas, uh, that, that we, the human mind draws from when they’re thinking in terms of color families. So we felt that light, clear, blue was a good indicator.

It was also a time when people were concerned about, uh, there was a big millennium scare that went on. So we were optimistic about the new century, but at the same time, concern about–will the clock stop, are the computers going to be able to work out. 

BrandiSea: [00:10:35] Is the world going to end? 

Leatrice: [00:10:38] Exactly. And so, uh, there was that fear and you know, trepidation, but at the same time, uh, assertive hopefulness of what, what, you know, lies ahead in the future that is more positive. And so, in our 20 year anniversary, we felt that it was a good time to revisit blue for all of those reasons because we are living in a, a very anxious kind of state now, I think happening all over the world.

And, uh, uh, you know, that we didn’t even predict and know about at the time. Like the coronavirus. Yeah, but that certainly plays into, I mean, we had enough indicators last year to tell us that, um, there were concerns that people have and when, and people feel overworked and stressed out, uh, you want to put them in a place where they can feel a bit more serene and reassured exactly.

And that classic blue is one of those colors that the deeper blue still associated with the sky, but it’s the sky at a certain time of day when the day is winding down and we’re seeking a more quiet, restful time. Uh, and so that Twilight kind of blue, which is what classic blue is. In addition to that, classic blue, really, um, even the name of the color tells you that it has some history attached to it.

BrandiSea: [00:12:11] A little dependability, maybe.

Leatrice: [00:12:12] It’s thought of in terms of traditional, a traditional color. But at the same time, again, it is being attached to many products that are forward thinking, you know, digitized products and electronic goods and things like that, that do speak to future horizons, that do speak to what are the new technologies going to take us to.

So it’s kind of an interesting mix of tradition and, and forward thinking. 

BrandiSea: [00:12:40] It’s similar to black. It’s sort of, like, classic and futuristic. 

Leatrice: [00:12:44] Yes. At the same time. Exactly, exactly. So it’s a, it’s for that reason too, it became a very, it has become a color that people can wrap their heads around and understand it very quickly as to what our rationale was and why we chose it.

Of course, we always look at other indicators as well. You know, the first indicator, the most important is, kind of, the zeitgeist of how people are thinking and feeling and what can a color answer, um, to, to satisfy that feeling. Uh, but at the same time, we look at the, the usual indicators. Certainly we look at the fashion field, cause we know that fashion designers are always looking to what’s the new latest POTUS.

And so fashion and cosmetics are always a good indicator. But then we looked at other areas as well. We looked to the world of art. Is there a particular artists or group of artists? Uh, do they have a favorite color that they’ve used? Or is the art, is the art traveling around the world, which it does do now?

It’s not just a question of coming to, you know, one big museum like the MET in New York, and then it disappears. But now you’re finding there are more and more traveling, uh, exhibits. And so we keep our eye on the world of art. Is, is, uh, a pervasive use of a particular color in that world of art? Uh, or is that artists attached to a particular color? Do they have a favorite color that they use? 

We look to the world of entertainment. Uh, you know, to films. Uh, because millions and millions of people go to see the films. 

BrandiSea: [00:14:24] Right. The color grading and–

Leatrice: [00:14:26] Yeah. I mean, even this last year, you can see this is the first time that a foreign film has ever won the Academy Award. 

BrandiSea: [00:14:33] Incredible.

Leatrice: [00:14:34] That is incredible for a Korean film to win out over American made films is really quite incredible.

But there is this audience that watches films all around the world. And so, you have this, um, insolence of films. It’s not only what the stars are wearing in the films, but it’s kind of the general mood film too, and how it was photographed and certain colors that might be very aware, we might be a very aware of.

Um, and. Uh, you know, It’s the animated children’s films that are, are very, very important to look at because they use color. The animators just use color in a way that is just mind boggling.

BrandiSea: [00:15:16] Strategic and amazing. 

Leatrice: [00:15:18] Exactly, exactly. Uh, so that’s another area that we look at. We look at, uh– although this year it wasn’t that big a deal.–we look at is the Olympics going to be held in a particular country? Is that country’s flag associated with. Um, you know, with a particular color? And if so, what is that color? Uh, so, you know, there are lots of indicators that we can look at, lots of directions that, and we all travel at Pantone a great deal.

So what’s happening in other, other countries? How are they using color? Is a color gaining ascendancy? And you have to be kind of a, a, color historian. To understand, uh, particularly from our standpoint at Pantone, uh, has that color been used in a while? Has it been an important color? Is it going to continue on?  Why is it continuing on? 

I mean, all of those things have to be looked at and evaluated. So it’s not just a question of, Oh, we haven’t done glue in a long time, let’s do blue.

BrandiSea: [00:16:22] Right.

Leatrice: [00:16:23] It’s far more thoughtful. 

BrandiSea: [00:16:24] Which I love. 

Leatrice: [00:16:25] Yeah. 

BrandiSea: [00:16:25] I think that’s so important. Um, so in your, in the most recent book, I think you were here to talk about that book the last time, the “Complete Color Harmony” book.

Um, you referenced blue as being the most popular hue worldwide. Um, how do you feel that, like this popularity has affected your decision at Pantone to move in the direction for the color in 2020. 

Leatrice: [00:16:47] Well. Yeah, that, you know, that can be, um, that can be problematic because you don’t want to choose a color just because it’s the popular color.

It has to be a color that is symbolic of, as I said, the zeitgeist or particular social movement or feeling. Um, so we would be, I think, undermining the whole process by saying, Oh, we’re never going to choose such and such because it’s not popular. And we know that that’s risky. I mean, because now people voice their opinion 

BrandiSea: [00:17:19] Very loudly.

Leatrice: [00:17:20] People who are going to, you know, say, disgusting things about color, that you’ve chosen a, if it’s not their favorite color. But, you see, the whole point is, our intention is to get the people to start a conversation about color. Get them talking about color. Uh, whether it’s positive or negative. I mean, that’s always a nice plus if it’s a lovely reception.

But if it isn’t, you still engage people in conversation about the color. And they, I mean, everybody’s got personal likes and dislikes, so you’re not going to please the whole world. And that is really not our intention. Because if we were out there only to do popular colors, then we’d be doing a disservice to really what the whole process is all about.

BrandiSea: [00:18:06] Right. Yeah, I agree. Um, asking why is really key, but I do find that often designers especially, um, choose a color or colors for their work based on, like, their emotions or their preference. Would you agree that this kind of approach isn’t really utilizing the full potential of maybe a given color? 

Leatrice: [00:18:27] Uh, you mean if a designer has a proclivity to a certain color? 

BrandiSea: [00:18:31] Yeah, so maybe today I feel, you know, I’m designing for whatever and I just, I just feel like using brown today. Or I just feel like using orange and I don’t ask why I’m using those colors or, you know, do you think that I’m doing a disservice to, to my work, to the ultimate output by not really looking closer at the meaning of, of those colors that I might feel or be drawn to? 

Leatrice: [00:18:59] Well, you know, in the classes that I teach, and I do a yearly class for, and we call it the color design class, and I’m doing it, and we’re doing it in a, uh, in May this year, uh, here on Bainbridge Island, where I live and work 

BrandiSea: [00:19:15] Which is where? For the audience.

Leatrice: [00:19:17] Uh, Bainbridge Island is near Seattle. It’s a 35 minute ferry ride away. So it’s like coming home to the country, but being that close to the big city, which is, you know, wonderful. And it’s very green and lush and just a beautiful area. Um, and so, uh, I have to say that, um. I say to my students all the time, uh, and people that come to hear me at seminars where I talk, if you’re a professional, you’ve got to divorce your personal self from your professional self.

BrandiSea: [00:19:52] Oh, I love that. Yes. Thank you.

Leatrice: [00:19:53] Yeah. You really, really have to do that because you’re doing a disservice to those people who want to buy your widget or your, your garment or you know, whatever it is that you are making. Uh, because there is such a variety of likes and dislikes and you know you’re not going to please everybody. But to choose only your favorites is really skewing it in a very personal direction. And if, and you know, there’s also a pragmatic reason for doing it. I mean, if you’re in business, obviously you want to sell your merchandise, so you have to have a broader spectrum. If you use the same spectrum all the time, what happens is that people start to get bored and they said, Oh, well, same old, same old. And they don’t stop to look. 

Now you can, you can continue on with certain colors that have done well for you. I mean, if you know that you sell more blue than any other color in your line, then it would be kind of silly just to throw away the blues, just to have something new. But the trick is, the challenge is how can I make it look new and fresh. 

BrandiSea: [00:21:00] Using the same thing. 

Leatrice: [00:21:01] I want to, yeah, I could skew the color. Maybe I’ve done a particular shade of blue. Now I’m going to go into a periwinkle blue. I’m going to add just a little, I’m staying, you know, staying within the blue family, but my surprise is that it’s a different tonality of blue than I’ve used before.

Or you choose to combine the color—which is really a great way of showing the versatility of color and educating your customer. Uh, why don’t, you know, you’ve always done your blues with whatever other color it might be.  You know, we do the gray, we do the beige, and we know that they’re safe, but why don’t you reach across the color wheel now and use a shade of coral next to your blue?

You know, give them a reason to educate them and also to test your own skill and ingenuity. How do I then incorporate that?

BrandiSea: [00:21:50] Yeah. Challenge yourself too.

Leatrice: [00:21:52] Yeah, I might’ve designed that beautiful blue dress, but I’m going to show it with coral colored sandals or some jewelry to get the consumer to stop if they see it online and say, Oh, wow. You know, just to catch their eye. I would never have thought of using that with coral, but I like that. And I’ve got that great coral necklace that I bought last year for the color of the year.

So this year, maybe I need to, to buy this blue garment, uh. And I’ll wear that, uh, coral necklace with it. So you’re, you’re always, uh, you’re, you’re, you’re being creatively, you know, you’re, you’re being pragmatic, but you’re being creative at the same. 

BrandiSea: [00:22:30] Yeah. Having some strategy to your, to your creative choices, I think is really, is really important.

I believe wholeheartedly that, um, if designers would understand the power that color has in their work, I think that it would really, um, elevate. Elevate what they do. 

Right. 

Leatrice: [00:22:49] And that’s a good word, strategy, because I think that with color and, and rightly so, we know that it’s very much attached to our emotions.

And then we, we look at a color and we love it. We don’t love it. And if you examine the reasons why, and you really have a conversation with people about it. Almost, invariably, it goes back to your childhood. Where you, you think, Oh my gosh, yeah, I ate too much pink cotton candy. 

BrandiSea: [00:23:17] My parents fed me too much orange, uh, Mac and cheese.

Leatrice: [00:23:22] Well, exactly. Well, that’s a great example. That’s a perfect example. And you kind of overindulge and know, get sick to your stomach and you can’t go outside and play with your friends. And, and I mean, there are all kinds of reasons why we respond positively or negatively to color. And, uh, I think that’s part of the fascination with color.

Let’s, let’s examine it. Let’s talk about it. And is that relevant in your life today? You know, you got sick when you were five years old and you couldn’t play with your friends.

BrandiSea: [00:23:51] Does that affect your tech business now?

Leatrice: [00:23:54] Exactly. 

BrandiSea: [00:23:55] Yeah, I definitely, um, in my, in my design brief, um, when I’m onboarding clients, there is a question there of, um, are there any colors that you do or do not prefer to use? And if so, what are they and why? So that, so that we can kind of do that little examination of, okay, you don’t like yellow, but, um, all the research I’m showing shows that your audience is drawn to yellow.

So let’s, let’s discuss this and see if we can have a compromise here. 

Leatrice: [00:24:23] Very good direction. You’re doing exactly the right thing and, and that, and in several of my books, I have a quiz, uh, that I use in determining, uh, people’s first reaction to color. What, what is your initial reaction? Because it’s usually that gut reaction that you have to go back and examine. And we talk about it in a class that I teach and we talk about it, you know, and it’s discussed in the book .And I will, you know, and it’s necessary. I can give that and have given that to a client to really try to figure out why they are so adamant about not using a certain color or using a another color.

And it’s fascinating to me that people, you know, no matter what level they are in a company. Uh, are really engaged when you start talking about color.  

BrandiSea: [00:25:10] It’s also really, um, it’s sort of satisfying when, as, as people who, who strive to, obviously you’re the expert, but, um, as someone who strives to really specialize in color psychology and emotions and things like this, to be able to pull someone from the side of–no, I absolutely  hate that– and–no, I will not–to explaining the logic behind why that color they say they hate  may work for what they’re going for and see them sort of change and go, Oh, I never saw that before. Or thank you for explaining that. And instead of just saying, no, this will work. Using that strategy and that logic to, to kind of bring them down from their, their intense emotion towards the color.

Um. So when I, when I travel, I, I’m constantly being, you know, making sure that I’m aware of lots of inspiration around me, whether it’s, you know, food or furniture or colors, textures, anything like that. Um, how do you, personally, collect your inspiration when you’re, when you’re out traveling? When you’re researching for the color of the year? Just in general. How do you, how do you go from being aware and being inspired to actually capturing those things and bringing them back with you?

Leatrice: [00:26:25] Well, uh, first of all, we know the power of the, uh, the camera. There is just no way when I go to trade shows that I could possibly remember everything that I see unless we bring back some, a record of that. And it can be, you know, as you said, you could, you could be walking down the street. And look at a store window or see the way somebody put an outfit together and look at the color combination and think, wow.

Uh, but to remember it and just to have, make a repository of it. So I think the camera, uh, even your, I mean, your cell phone camera is obviously the easiest way. Just to keep a record of that, and I’ve done that forever. I mean, even before we had cell phones it, you know– 

BrandiSea: [00:27:10] That was about to be my next question. You just pull around a giant camera. 

Leatrice: [00:27:16] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can remember a time in New York when I did, did not have a camera with me. I was just racing between appointments and there was a woman walking down fifth Avenue. I will never forget it, but it was New York and you can see weird things there. She had a chameleon sitting in a little hat on her head. 

BrandiSea: [00:27:37] No kidding. 

Leatrice: [00:27:38] It was like her pet, her pet chameleon. And I was talking to somebody who was walking with me and I, ah, I mean, I guess because what a photo op and I didn’t have my camera. , 

BrandiSea: [00:27:50] That is such a blessing now to have the phone, righ? 

Leatrice: [00:27:54] Oh my gosh. I mean, and obviously the chameleon would change colors based on, you know, whatever her hair color was or whatever.

I mean, it was amazing. She was beautifully coordinated. 

BrandiSea: [00:28:10] It’s like the perfect accessory.

Leatrice: [00:28:11] Anybody’s walking around with a chameleon on her head is not going to be your so-called normal person. 

BrandiSea: [00:28:19] I want to talk to this woman.

Leatrice: [00:28:21] I would love to have caught up with her and engage her in conversation but she was walking really fast and I was walking with somebody. And, uh, so, but you know, that was really a lost opportunity.

So I learned my lesson then that would’ve made the most sensational picture. You can imagine. 

BrandiSea: [00:28:37] It’s like the original fear of missing out, right? When you’re certain, when you find inspiration and you’d have no way of capturing it and then you–but look, you remembered it. So, you still remembered it, all these years later. 

Leatrice: [00:28:49] Well, yes. That was so out of the ordinary.

How could you forget something like that? 

BrandiSea: [00:28:55] So do you find that there’s like any specific ways that you practice awareness? Or is it just sort of natural to you? I feel like, for me it’s, it’s pretty core to who I am to just always be aware of what might be, what might be there, but maybe for, for other people who maybe don’t have that gene or that proclivity to, to be on the lookout.

What sort of, what sort of tips might you have for someone who’s just learning how to kind of have that awareness for receiving that inspiration color wise or otherwise? 

Leatrice: [00:29:26] Yeah. Well, you can practice awareness. There’s, there’s no question of that. My, and I, I know I felt like a luddite when I say this, but when I see people walking around–

BrandiSea: [00:29:36] I’m really one at heart so it’s okay.

Leatrice: [00:29:38] Yeah. I mean, even on the street, there might be something that catches your attention and you think, Oh wow. You know, and I hear what you’re saying about you’ve always had this gift and it is a gift. To be that super aware. I, I’m the same way. 

BrandiSea: [00:29:52] Sometimes it’s a curse. 

Leatrice: [00:29:54] I am so involved and it’s one of the reasons why I am so directionally dyslexic.

That I mean, I can’t tell my left side from my right when I’m traveling. 

BrandiSea: [00:30:02] Wow. Maybe that’s my problem. I never put–

Leatrice: [00:30:05] Are you the same way? Because you’re so wrapped up in looking at your right around, .

BrandiSea: [00:30:11] Someone asked me when they were visiting here which direction the mountains were, and I’m like, I don’t know? That way. 

Leatrice: [00:30:16] You’re not even recording how you got to where you got to. You’re so busy looking at the world around you and it’s a great, it’s a gift.

At the same time, you can get lost very easily. So, uh, and, but in answer to your original question, I think people can learn to be more aware. I think sometimes they’re just not aware that they’re unaware, particularly if they’re so involved in, in texting all the time, that that becomes their focus and they’re not paying attention to what’s happening in the world around them.

They’re not being engaged by their surroundings. And I that, that is something of concern, particularly when I see young people who are, I mean, walking down the street, they’re not seeing what’s around them. They are focused on their cell phone and they’re not looking at their Instagram account. They’re talking to somebody. They’re, you know, they’re engaged in conversation. But they’re not absorbing what is in the world around them. I mean, my gosh, you can look up at the sky and see a beautiful, you know, beautiful 

BrandiSea: [00:31:20] Gradient. 

Leatrice: [00:31:21] Puffy cloud against that blue sky, or on a gray day, uh, the color of the, of the cloud against the sky.

I mean, all of that is inspirational. 

BrandiSea: [00:31:31] Were  you, um, were you involved with the development of the Pantone app? Where you can take a picture and it sort of creates a, a color scheme for you? Cause I feel like, like that’s a really interesting tool for, for color capturing specifically. Do you use that? Or do you just take pictures and bring them back to your team and kind of, like, sort them on a big board to figure out what’s next?

Leatrice: [00:31:59] Um, well, it’s not necessarily posted on a big board, but because some of us live in on the East coast and some on the West coast, but we, I mean, we exchange things online, but we’re very careful to be sure that we have the Pantone, uh, color that it comes from. So we know that we’re all looking at the same color and not having to worry about the calibration of our monitors.

Uh, no, I was not involved in that. Um, that really, uh, when you’re talking about algorithms and that kind of thing, that takes a certain skill that we have to leave up to the scientists. At the same time, uh, you can’t underestimate the value of the human eye. Uh, because there are algorithms that might work it out on paper. But in actual fact, when you look at them in real time, it may be different than what the algorithm has, uh, has shown you. So I still believe in, in that the ability of the eye to discern, uh, certain undertones and characteristics. And I think, I think to importantly acknowledge that because there are people obviously like yourself who have that gift.

You know, you don’t necessarily say you’re an artist, but you know you have that gift with color. And I think that you can’t underestimate that gift. I mean, if we all painted pictures just, you know, on, on the computer, uh, there would be no individual influence or color sense that went into that. You know. 

And that, I think it’s important to, um, to acknowledge.

BrandiSea: [00:33:35] I think, um, so something that I, I’ve been pushing for as long as I’ve been speaking in any sort of public arena is, um, you know, getting away from the computer and the digital stuff to go out and find inspiration. Um, do you, do you practice this every day? As, you know, if you’re having a sort of blah day, you’re not really feeling like– you are feeling inspired or you’re, you’re, maybe your awareness isn’t keyed up the way it is. Do you have any, any place that you go that’s special that you know, like if I go here, I’m going to be refreshed and rejuvenated and my eyes are going to be back open and I’m going to be ready to be, sort of, on the receiving end of inspiration again?

Leatrice: [00:34:17] Well, that’s, that’s a really good question. It’s an interesting question. Um, for me, because I live in a, in a part of the, the world that is very lush and green. I mean, I’m looking out of my office window right now. I’m surrounded by a sea of greens and I’ve always referred to that and tell my students all the time, it’s mother nature’s ubiquitous, neutral color.

Uh, and it is, it’s a perfect background. I mean, you never walk out into your garden and say, Oh, purple Crocus against green leaves–what a terrible  combination. What was mother nature thinking of when she put that together? I mean, you know, whatever the flower is, whatever the tonality is, it all blends beautifully. And I think if you can just put yourself in that space, and I know it sounds weird because you know, in the wintertime we have a lot of dull days in the Northwest. We don’t have as much sunlight. But for a colorist, that’s a blessing. Because when I lived in California, uh, I had an office that faced South on top of the fact that there was always sunlight, or just about every day there was sunlight and I would have to retreat into the back of the office. Uh, to get away from that blazing sunlight, which sucks color out of the, of the surface.

BrandiSea: [00:35:36] You just blew my mind right now because rainy, cloudy days are when I feel the most inspired and the most energized. And when it’s super sunny outside, I just want to crawl away. I’ve never met anybody else that feels that way. That’s really interesting. 

Leatrice: [00:35:52] That ties in with your innate skill then that you, you innately feel that. Uh, but it is that gray light, uh, that is a wonderful, natural light for color matching and for viewing color in its true tonality.

BrandiSea: [00:36:07] The neutral gray. 

Leatrice: [00:36:09] I had friends who said to me before I left California, you’re moving to, Oh my God, it rains all the time. And I said, you know, not a bad thing for a colorist to do color matching. And it’s true 

BrandiSea: [00:36:22] All of a sudden, so many things in my life make sense. 

Leatrice: [00:36:26] Where do you live? 

BrandiSea: [00:36:27] I live in, I live near Albuquerque, New Mexico.

We have a lot of sunny days here. Yeah. But any time, anytime it’s just the least bit cloudy, I’m just like, okay, let me, let me take the world. Yeah. Get me outside. You know, we went to Europe, um, in October, my husband and I, and um, a lot of the time that we were there, um, we went to Paris, we went to various cities in Italy and Scotland.

And. A lot of the time was rainy and cloudy and people were like, Oh, I’m so sorry. Like it must’ve been so awful. And I was like, are you kidding? It was the best. 

Leatrice: [00:37:01] Yeah, I feel the same way. I just think there’s something magical about that kind of atmosphere. 

BrandiSea: [00:37:06] Well, maybe someday I’ll get to come, come visit you in Bainbridge.

Leatrice: [00:37:10] Yeah, absolutely. 

See what 

BrandiSea: [00:37:12] he, what that garden looks like in the gray light. 

Leatrice: [00:37:15] Yes, absolutely. 

BrandiSea: [00:37:17] Well, I don’t want to take up any more of your time, Lee. I am so excited that we got to talk again. I hope that we can maybe make this a regular occurrence. At the beginning of each year. 

Leatrice: [00:37:27] I hope so. And you know, please send me, send us a link so we can share it.

BrandiSea: [00:37:31] Absolutely. Will do. 

Okay. Enjoy your day. I hope the weather is gray and cloudy for you. 

Leatrice: [00:37:38] Thank you so much. And you know, I, I would appreciate it too, because, uh, you talk about people in their, can, they develop an awareness? And so, and this is exactly the kind of thing that I talk about in my class. I mean, even though I have some, uh,  real pros in the color world who takes the class. Um still, it’s good to have those reminders. And that’s what we do in the four day program that I teach here. 

BrandiSea: [00:38:02] So where can people find more info on that? 

Leatrice: [00:38:05] Well, uh, if you go onto our website, uh, we have a training area of our website. If they go on to Leatriceeiseman.com 

BrandiSea: [00:38:13] People can follow you on Instagram at  @LeatriceEisman, is that correct?

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being with us again. I look forward to our next conversation and we appreciate all of your vast wisdom on the color world. 

Leatrice: [00:38:29] Thank you. 

BrandiSea: [00:38:30] Thank you. Have a wonderful day.

All right, Julie. So today is actually really sunny here, and it’s pretty sunny. I don’t know. It’s pretty sunny for me. Julie made the little move with her hand that’s like, ehh. sort of.  !Hat would you call this? 

Julie: [00:39:16] For New Mexico I wouldn’t say this is sunny, but for maybe other places, perhaps it is. 

BrandiSea: [00:39:21] It’s already, it’s pretty bright in here. Like I almost need my sunglasses.

 So when the sun is out this bright, I feel like totally drained and. I don’t want to do things and I don’t feel super motivated. Are you? Are you the opposite? Are you like, it’s sunny! Like, let’s go out, like, let’s do something. 

Julie: [00:39:39] Ah, I don’t know. It kind of depends. So I really love like, cloudy, rainy days, but I don’t feel super motivated. I feel super motivated to relax. And like I wanna read a book. 

BrandiSea: [00:39:53] Is that a book? I feel motivated to relax.

Julie: [00:39:56] I, it just really makes me want to like read a book and curl up in a bunch of blankets and just–

BrandiSea: [00:40:00] So you feel motivated to learn? No? 

Julie: [00:40:04] To relax. Yeah. 

BrandiSea: [00:40:08] I wonder if that’s a thing that you can feel motivated to not be motivated. 

Julie: [00:40:12] It is now. 

BrandiSea: [00:40:14] Okay. Okay. If you say so.

Well, Leatrice kind of, as you just heard– her talk about like, what the color, like the color gray. So, I’ve basically, um, I would consider myself like more than a color enthusiast. I, I know a lot of color. I researched a lot about color. I’m really passionate about color psychology and all this stuff.

And I know that when you’re comparing colors, like if you’re trying to get the correct shade of something, that it’s really good to have like a neutral gray to look at. To make sure that you’re, you’re getting the right shade in your brain from what you’re seeing. But what I never made the connection–when she was talking about the cloudy day thing, I was like, you just blew my mind.

Julie: [00:40:58] Yeah. It sounds like you guys are very similar, and also I wonder, how productive would you be if you lived in someplace that was cloudy? I mean, honestly, New Mexico is one of the sunniest places on earth. So, imagine if you moved anywhere else, basically.

BrandiSea: [00:41:12] I would also be up, slash out, till 5:00 AM every night. I would be like, I don’t need sleep. I’m going to do things all day long. 

Yeah. So it was just like, wait a second. This whole neutral gray thing actually applies to like the world I live in. Like, I have no words. I was astounded. Like I was absolutely astounded. So what, now that, uh, now that you’ve got, you’ve got the opportunity to hear Leatrice talk about all of this color stuff, has your mind changed at all on, on your approach to color and how you think about it or approach? 

Julie: [00:41:49] Yeah, it was really cool to hear, especially when she was talking about how they choose the Pantone color of the year. I always wonder that when I see it cause sometimes it’s not something that I’m expecting.

BrandiSea: [00:41:59] It never is for me.

Julie: [00:42:01] I think I kind of always assumed that it was based a lot of trends, especially fashion trends. And so I’m like, Oh yeah, this color I’m seeing pop up more and more. This is what I expect. 

BrandiSea: [00:42:11] And it’s the opposite.

Julie: [00:42:12] Yeah. And especially, like, classic blue was not at all what I was expecting, like, kind of a rusty Reddy orange kind of a color or something like that. Um, something very, like, earthy. And so, classic blue was not what I was expecting. But to hear her talk about how they chose that and, um, kind of the emotion behind it and like trying to match, like, the climate of our world right now and, like, give us a little bit of hope and stability and everything. It was really cool to hear that and also to hear, like, kind of where they look at for all this information for colors and– 

BrandiSea: [00:42:48] The chameleon on a ladies hat. 

Julie: [00:42:50] Yes, that was amazing. Um, yeah. And also to hear her say that like the whole team travels a lot. That was really cool. 

Can I be on your  team. 

BrandiSea: [00:43:00] Julie will bring the big camera and I’ll bring the other camera and we’ll just follow you around

Julie: [00:43:06] Yes. That would be so fun. 

BrandiSea: [00:43:08] Yeah. So I, I’ve always, I’ve always been really, um, passionate, probably. There’s probably a word that is more passionate than passionate. But I’m more, I’m very passionate about making sure that like designers understand why they do things, but especially in colors because they are so personal, like she said, because people have so many associations with things. It’s really hard to kind of get, get creatives–especially creatives–because even more so than a normal person–I say normal cause creatives aren’t normal people. Um, really have this leaning towards, well I know because I’m the creative. Like, I chose this color because it feels right. And that’s all like, I just know. 

Julie: [00:43:54] But how do you translate that to somebody who’s not a creative and doesn’t. And obviously nobody’s thinking the same way that you are. 

BrandiSea: [00:44:00] Exactly. Yeah. And so, um, it’s always nice to have somebody that is an expert in this field, kind of, reinforce the things that I’m always saying. Cause it’s like, look, I’m not just saying this because I just really love color guys. Like this is actually, like, a real thing.

And I love too that, I, I love the idea that she sees like a color across the world. To come together cause you know, in a lot of ways color is also very subjective by culture. 

Julie: [00:44:34] Like that’s incredibly true. 

BrandiSea: [00:44:35] And so it’s like, wait, you found classic blue trending in India and Canada and Hawaii or whatever.

Like that’s kind of bonkers to think about that. Okay. So definitely we’re all not so different. Yeah. If we’re sort of leading in these directions. So, I love Leatrice and I’m super excited that she got to be on to talk with us. 

Julie: [00:44:59] Such a great conversation. 

BrandiSea: [00:45:01] And I hope that everyone out there learned a little bit, some little bit more about how they might think about color.

And I know that. I will be honest, I definitely didn’t think I was going to learn anything new. I was just like, I just love Leatrice, and I love color, and she’s going to talk about cool things that my audience needs to hear. Ouch. Because I learned a couple things. There you have it.

Again, that was Les Champs Elysees by Pomplamoose, and John Schroeder. You can find this song and all the inspiring music we share on our music from Design Speaks playlist on Spotify. All right, everybody, that’s our episode for today. If you’d like to support design speaks, you can do so by sharing this podcast with a friend or head over to our Patrion page at patrion.com/designspeaks.

Design speaks is produced by Kenneth Kniffin and Dakota Cook and me, Brandy Sea. Audio production by Kenneth Kniffin. Thanks to Colin from Vesperteen for our theme music. You can find Vesperteen on Apple music and Spotify. Design Speaks is a project of BrandiSea Designs. It is recorded and produced in the shadow of the watermelon- pink, Sandia Mountains near Albuquerque, New Mexico.

You can leave us a note on Instagram at @designspeakspodcast and you can find all current and past episodes at designspeakspodcast.com.

 Thanks again for listening. Till next time.