Design Speaks Episode 138  – Chapter 10 – Staying Focused and Resisting the Siren Song of Distraction

[00:00:00] BrandiSea: [00:00:00] Welcome to Design Speaks the podcast that helps you discover uncommon inspiration so you can make more meaningful work. I’m Brandi Sea, my co-host is Julie Hyder. This week we’re going to be talking about staying focused in the midst of our distractions. Stay tuned for that coming up later in the show.

[00:00:30] So Julie, I have a question for you.

[00:00:32] Julie: [00:00:32] Yes. 

[00:00:32] BrandiSea: [00:00:32] On a scale of from super focused to, Oh look, squirrel. Where would you say he rank? 

[00:00:43] Julie: [00:00:43] Uh, it depends on the day and 

[00:00:45] possibly also the 

[00:00:47] hour and the minute. Um, yeah. I don’t know. It also, I feel like if I’m really excited about something, then I’m like super focused on it and I’m like, yeah, I’m going to get this done.

[00:00:59] Um, but if [00:01:00] I’m just looking for excuses to not be doing what I’m doing, then yeah, the tiniest thing will definitely get me distracted. 

[00:01:10] BrandiSea: [00:01:10] Do you find, do you find that you are more prone to distractions during like a certain time of day? 

[00:01:16] Julie: [00:01:16] I think it really is dependent on, like I said, what I’m doing, but maybe in the afternoons, cause like morning is like, all right, get up, get it done, and then, you know, I take a lunch break and then it’s like, Oh well I can do this other thing before I get started back to work or something

[00:01:31] like that. 

[00:01:31] BrandiSea: [00:01:31] So there’s like a marked difference for me. It’s almost like every day between like 2:00 and 2:30 I hit a wall and trying to stay focused from that point on is just like. What for you? What is, what is 

[00:01:47] life? 

[00:01:47] Julie: [00:01:47] I wonder if that has to do with like your body’s, um, like kind of slump stage where it’s feeling like it needs energy and you start craving like [00:02:00] caffeine 

[00:02:00] and stuff.

[00:02:00] BrandiSea: [00:02:00] Like, I just need a snack. Is that what you’re saying? Yeah. 

[00:02:04] Julie: [00:02:04] I was just talking, I was just talking to a friend who, um, is a health coach and she was talking about that like mid afternoon slump and what to do about it and everything. And so I wonder if that actually has something to do with our focus 

[00:02:17] as well.

[00:02:18] BrandiSea: [00:02:18] Yeah, I would imagine so. Definitely wasn’t the angle I was looking to go with this, but I feel like distractions can come from any number of things and that’s what we’re going to be talking about today, including. You know, being hangry or needing a nap or all of the above. So we’ll be talking about that more.

[00:02:39] But I wanted to share my inspiration this week and it’s, I don’t know. The things I’ve been bringing lately have felt a little bit intangible just because life is strange right now, but yeah, we can all agree. I feel like even the last episode that’s going to come out [00:03:00] is probably still going to be happening

[00:03:02] during Corona virus affected time. So, yeah, I think that these episodes are, yeah, everyone knows where we’re at. So, uh, I, I would say that my inspiration this week has been, um, just perspective. I’ve been looking back at a lot of things and kind of trying to look at at past things and at my current situation with a different perspective and even even like not trying.

[00:03:30] Have you found that you’re looking at like just life in general with a different perspective? Like before I move on, I just wanted to ask you that. 

[00:03:36] Julie: [00:03:36] Yeah, for sure. Cause everything, like even the things that aren’t different are different. So yeah, I definitely feel that way and I feel like. The topics that I’m talking to people about are different than normal, and yeah, just everything is different.

[00:03:52] BrandiSea: [00:03:52] Yeah. So, um, this past week I, I looked at this photo that I just posted from Versailles that [00:04:00] Kenny took of me when we were out in the gardens and it was pretty, it was pretty packed inside and outside. There were people, but he took this picture of me that looked like we were completely alone, and I’ve just been really inspired by perspective and looking back at photos with a different perspective has given me things that I want to write about and I’ve been super grateful for that because sometimes, I don’t know, you know, this, like sometimes it’s just a struggle to figure out what to write in a blog post, or having this perspective has been really inspirational to me because I feel like it’s given me, I dunno, more emotion.

[00:04:36] Julie: [00:04:36] Yeah. 

[00:04:37] BrandiSea: [00:04:37] Uh, that’s, that’s it. It’s basically just perspective. And looking back at things that I’ve looked at before and seeing them completely differently is, is kind of kind of new and cool. So, yeah. 

[00:04:48] Julie: [00:04:48] Life experience does that. 

[00:04:50] BrandiSea: [00:04:50] Yeah. Gosh, Brandi live a little. Get some life experience and then you’ll know what to [00:05:00] write.

[00:05:02] Jeez. 

[00:05:06] “The Medicine” by Jeremy Renner

[00:05:53][00:05:53][00:05:53][00:05:53] That was “The Medicine” by Jeremy Renner. Hawkeye himself is a musician, guys. [00:06:00] I chose this song this week because while I’ve been listening to it a lot, which is normal for me when I bring these songs, but I also just really love his voice and the raw feeling in his lyrics. And I. Have been listening to it a lot, so I wanted to share it with you guys.

[00:06:19] But there’s, there’s a few lyrics that really kind of stuck out to me. You were just like magic, beautiful and tragic. Now you’re gone. And thinking about this week’s topic, it was actually really appropriate. These lyrics really reminded me of how distractions can also see magical. But. Then they are also gone.

[00:06:37] You know, the rush is gone and then you’re just left feeling bummed, bummed out that you didn’t finish or you didn’t accomplish the things that you wanted to because you were busy chasing after the things that were calling out to you. So I think that even though it’s obviously not written about distractions necessarily, that.

[00:06:57] It’s a, it’s a good reminder to, to keep [00:07:00] those, in check.

[00:07:11] So today we really wanted to talk about.  Creative distractions and staying focused, especially during these times. It’s probably extra hard for people that are, you know, not used to working from home. You and I are used to working from home and that presents, that does present a whole. Slew of challenges, but I wanted to talk today about how to stay focused in the midst of those creative distractions.

[00:07:38] Julie: [00:07:38] Yeah, this is a great topic for sure.

[00:07:41]BrandiSea: [00:07:41] First of all, how do you stay focused? Like how do you set yourself up for success? I think for a little while, there’s probably going to be a huge chunk of creatives and designers that are working from home, being quote unquote, “nonessential”. 

[00:07:58] Julie: [00:07:58] Yeah. [00:08:00] Um, that’s a great question.

[00:08:02] And I think part of it is knowing what your distractions are and like taking the initiative of trying to cut them out, um, whether that’s turning your phone ringer off or like telling yourself you can’t get on Facebook or Instagram or whatever. I feel like as someone who works from home, like, yes, I don’t have coworkers to come, like talk to me and distract me, but I can find people 

[00:08:30] online like…

[00:08:31] BrandiSea: [00:08:31] They don’t have to be in your presence 

[00:08:32] to be distractions.

[00:08:34] Julie: [00:08:34] Yeah, 

[00:08:34] exactly. Just like taking care of those distractions. And then also something that I started doing, not for this reason, but I think is kind of effective. Um, I started tracking my time for different projects. So if I’m editing, I will time myself, if I’m location scouting for clients all the time myself, and really like.

[00:08:55] That originated because I wanted to know on average how much time I was spending [00:09:00] so I would know where my price needed to be. But by doing that, by having the timer on my phone running, it’s like, okay, well if I’m gonna flip over to Facebook, I’ve have to stop that timer and then I have to restart it when I come back.

[00:09:14] BrandiSea: [00:09:14] It’s like 

[00:09:14] a little barrier? 

[00:09:16] Julie: [00:09:16] Yeah, it is. It’s just like one more thing to stop me from 

[00:09:19] doing that. 

[00:09:19] BrandiSea: [00:09:19] That’s a great idea. 

[00:09:20] Yeah. I’m not, I’ve been doing this for so long that I kind of already just know how long things take me. I think that that’s a really great idea. It’s similar to kind of setting it like, I like to set songs to work too, and I know that I need to do XYZ by the end of this song, but I think it’s a lot easier to flip over to Instagram while songs playing as opposed to needing to stop a timer.

[00:09:41] So that’s a really great strategy. 

[00:09:43] Julie: [00:09:43] Yeah, 

[00:09:44] it just sort of accidentally happened, but I have noticed like it’s just annoying to stop and start your timer a million times, and then inevitably, I forget to put the timer and back on and it’s like, “Oh crap, I just worked for 20 minutes and I didn’t have it running. Or I don’t know how long I worked [00:10:00] for.”

[00:10:01] BrandiSea: [00:10:01] That’s literally I, I was, I’m not saying this cause I’m like that person. I’m trying to exercise again. I’ve been in a weird place being home and like not wanting to do certain things and working out is one of them. So Michelle told me this, I was like, “ah, it’s already 10 o’clock and I haven’t even showered.”

[00:10:18] And she was like, “don’t shower until you work out.” And I was like, “Oh, okay.” So I worked, I did, I did like this, this bar exercise thing on the TV, and then when I was done, I was like, I didn’t put the timer thing on my watch that like tracks that I worked out. So I basically didn’t work out like now I’m going to have to do another 30 minutes tonight so that my watch knows that I worked out. That’s just kind of like the same thing I’ve been on like this really weird tangent, not really tangent.

[00:10:49] Thinking about muses and sirens. There is a correlation here. I promise. This is how my brain works. In Greek mythology, muses were goddesses who inspired literature like science [00:11:00] and art and artists, scientists, et cetera, and sirens were these weird half women, half bird creatures that, yeah. Sirens would lure men away with their song to their destruction.

[00:11:15] I was thinking, you know, I could say that music is our inspiration, our strategy, or our goals.  Muses need to be something that we can look to that. They keep us on track and keep us inspired. Where distractions are the sirens that lead us away. I don’t know if they don’t necessarily lead us to our destruction.

[00:11:35] I mean, maybe. 

[00:11:37] Julie: [00:11:37] To inefficiency, at the very 

[00:11:39] least.

[00:11:40]BrandiSea: [00:11:40] Yeah, you 

[00:11:40] might not die unless you get so distracted that you don’t work and then you don’t eat and then you might die. I don’t know. That’s a little dramatic.

[00:11:50] Julie: [00:11:50] Just a little bit.

[00:11:51] BrandiSea: [00:11:51] Yeah, but I was just thinking about this and. Trying to figure out, I don’t have an answer for this.

[00:11:57] I just wanted to talk with you a little bit about it. [00:12:00] How can we really cultivate our muses being this source of inspiration, but also not be drawn away by these, these siren songs, whether that’s Netflix or even our kids are lovely and amazing, but working at home and having kids is really distracting.

[00:12:19] And how can we kind of set ourselves up for success? So what is it that you do to stay focused on something maybe that’s not super exciting to you? I know that when it’s, when it’s something that I’m not super thrilled about at this point  for me that’s like a logo client. I love you logo clients, but it’s just not, it’s just not like where my heart is and it’s work and I’m super glad to have that work and get paid and have extra money to travel when we can travel again.

[00:12:49] But the other thing is, you know, I know that it’s not super something I’m really passionate about and so, I need to do that first thing. Like when I have [00:13:00] the most brain power, I have to do the thing that I hate the most first. That’s like my strategy for avoiding the distraction. That’s like, “Oh, but you have this other client that’s an album cover and they’re a lot more fun, but they’re not due for like two more months and this one’s due in like a week and you hate it, so maybe you should do that first.”

[00:13:22] How about you? 

[00:13:23] Julie: [00:13:23] Yeah, I think. For me in many ways, what works is putting pressure on. So like setting a deadline and it not just being a deadline for me, but like me saying to the client, this will be ready by this day. 

[00:13:37] BrandiSea: [00:13:37] Nothing gives you more focus than telling the client you will have it done on a certain day.

[00:13:43] Julie: [00:13:43] Yeah. So I mean, when the pressure’s on, you gotta do it. And I personally, I mean, probably most people are this way, but like, I don’t want to disappoint anybody. So I’m gonna do whatever it takes to get it on time. So, or at least like as close on time as possible. So [00:14:00] yeah, there’s definitely the pressure for that.

[00:14:02] I don’t know if that’s. Really the best strategy, but it is effective. 

[00:14:07] BrandiSea: [00:14:07] No, I think 

[00:14:07] it’s a great strategy. Honestly. I work really well. I say I put it this way, like it sounds really good when you say it this way. Like I work really well under pressure and not everybody does, but you know, honestly, even Kenny’s the same way, I could tell him, you know, “I need, I need all of these episodes edited by, you know, the end of may and that’ll be fine.”

[00:14:29] And inevitably, it will not get done until like two days before the end of may because he likes to have like a hard set or, you know, if I just say, you know, just do them whenever it’s never going to get done. And I think that the majority of us really do work well when we know sort of what’s expected of us.

[00:14:52] Julie: [00:14:52] It’s true 

[00:14:54] BrandiSea: [00:14:54] If we tell our kids, um, make your bed at some point today. Yeah. That’s never, that bed’s [00:15:00] never getting made. 

[00:15:01] Julie: [00:15:01] Yeah. So it always makes me think back to between my junior and senior years of college, I was applying for an internship with a graphic design company and I really wanted to work for them.

[00:15:13] And I went and had an interview and they were like, great, we’re on board with this, but we would like for you to like do a project for us before we like officially sign you on as an intern. So. Yeah. I had to create like come up with a brand and create a logo and I think like letterhead and a brochure or something like that, and business cards maybe, and I had two weeks to do it in and at this point, like I was on

[00:15:41] like break or something. Like I have the time, but I waited until like the night before to do it. But honestly, like I couldn’t, I just wasn’t coming up with like good ideas prior to that. But then like the pressure was on,that night.

[00:15:54] BrandiSea: [00:15:54] You needed a good process Julie.

[00:15:56]Julie: [00:15:56] I did. I really did. 

[00:15:57] Yes. Little like 

[00:16:00] [00:16:00] 17 year old me definitely needed a process. 

[00:16:03] Um, but yeah, anyway.

[00:16:06] It does. I mean, the pressure is effective 

[00:16:09] at the very least. 

[00:16:10] BrandiSea: [00:16:10] Yeah. I think that, I think that it’s okay to have to put deadlines on yourself. And if you know, honestly, like if you know that you work better that way. Set, I would say set small, even set smaller deadlines. So for yourself. So even if you told the client I will have, or even set those small, there’s two ways to do it.

[00:16:29] You could set the small deadlines for yourself and if that’s not enough. Set the small deadlines with your client as well, instead of just saying, “I will have a final logo to you by you know, this week?” Yeah. Set it two weeks before and say, I will have a rough version of it for you this week. Um, just depending on, you know, what you’re creating, obviously, and how you work.

[00:16:50] But I find that having smaller, you know, and that’s something that the process also really helps with is because there are specific steps you can go, okay, well this week [00:17:00] I need to get the word map done. Next week I have to have concepting. Two days after that I have to have sketches and so on and so forth and setting smaller

[00:17:07] tasks makes you also feel like you’re actually making progress instead of just having one big thing at the end that it’s like, Oh my gosh, am I ever. 

[00:17:17] Am I ever going to get there?

[00:17:18] Julie: [00:17:18] Yeah, It’s like a bite size to do list? 

[00:17:20] BrandiSea: [00:17:20] Yeah, just a little, just a little fun size Halloween candy goal. 

[00:17:26] Julie: [00:17:26] Um, 

[00:17:27] have you ever tried like, um, time blocking as a way to like keep yourself on track and not be distracted?

[00:17:35] BrandiSea: [00:17:35] I’ve thought about it. I’ve read about it. I have not actually tried it. It’s hard. It’s really hard for me with the kind of time I work with to be able to do that. I, the most I’ve done up to this point is basically say like during, I tried, I honestly try to do it at the beginning of the school year. I have like a whole notebook full of like, blocks of time when I’m going to do [00:18:00] X, Y, and Z, and it just never ends up working out that way with kids.

[00:18:03] But I do definitely have like a portion of time. I know that when I come up to my office, I sit down and I spend the first 10 to 15 minutes writing and then I spend a certain amount of time creating and stuff, and then I take a break. But there’s, it’s not like super specific. Is that something that you do?

[00:18:24] Julie: [00:18:24] Gotcha. 

[00:18:25] Um, no, I have been interested in it and I don’t know. My, my thing is like, what if you’re not finished with the project at the end of the block of time, and then is it really more efficient to stop and do something else or should you just continue with what you’re doing until you’re actually done with the project.

[00:18:46] So that’s kind of like where I have a hangup with it. Um, but also like, I haven’t tried it, so I can’t really knock it. So 

[00:18:54] BrandiSea: [00:18:54] I haven’t either. And I, I agree with that, especially for me because I mean, I guess for all of us, not [00:19:00] just me, but you know, there are only so many hours that you can dedicate to things.

[00:19:05] And. Things. Other things still have to get finished, so I would have to agree with you. Like you said, I don’t know exactly how it works either, and I don’t know where that comes into play, but I feel like for me, I would feel really down about the time that I spent, if I just moved on to whatever task is next on the list without having completed the one before.

[00:19:25] Julie: [00:19:25] Yeah.

[00:19:26] BrandiSea: [00:19:26] So yeah, I could see that. Another thing is to know, like set your goals. Set your goals. Like the night before, whatever. If that’s just as a simple to do list or if that’s like an actual step by step thing that you need to do. If you know going to bed the night before, what you will be expected to do the next morning, you’re kind of already setting yourself up to be focused on that thing.

[00:19:55] Almost like when you do research the night before and then you sleep and your brain can kind of marinate on it a little bit. [00:20:00] It’s like, okay, so tomorrow. I need to do this, this, this, and this, this, and this. And that accomplishes two things. One, it’s been proven that if you write down things you’re worried about or stressed about on a piece of paper before you go to bed, you’ll actually sleep better.

[00:20:15] So it helps reduce the stress of the things that you’re going to do the next day. But on top of that. When you wake up, it’s like, “Oh, okay. I know what I have to do today.” Instead of the added stress of, “Oh my gosh, what do I have to do 

[00:20:27] today?”

[00:20:28]Julie: [00:20:28] Yeah. Yeah. And then you’re just like eating up more of your time when you could be actually working on projects.

[00:20:35] BrandiSea: [00:20:35] Yeah. I read somewhere, and this is actually something I’ve been doing. When I, when I know I’m gonna work out, I read somewhere that it’s really helpful to put your clothes out. In the place where you’re going to work out or like right at the edge of your bed or like somewhere you can see it first thing when you wake up so that you can just see there’s no barrier between you and exercising.

[00:20:56] It’s just like, “Oh, there’s my clothes. I should probably just change into my [00:21:00] clothes real quick.” And that has been a huge, like a game changer for me because as stupid as it sounds, when you’re… You know, distractions can be anything and they can, they can be so easy to just be like, “yeah, I just. I don’t feel like getting dressed and then getting dressed again.”

[00:21:17] It’s just like, “Oh, okay, I’m just going to change it out of my pajamas into this real quick, and then I’ll go into my closet and really get dressed”, and it’s just such a weird thing how you can shift your, your mindset into tricking yourself. That’s all it is. 

[00:21:31] Julie: [00:21:31] Yeah. Yeah. I could definitely see where, like with your work though, like just set everything up so that you don’t have any barriers.

[00:21:38] You don’t have anything that can distract you, so you can just hopefully sail on through it. And honestly, sometimes once you get started on that thing that you didn’t really want to 

[00:21:46] do, 

[00:21:48] you’re like, Oh, this is not actually so bad. 

[00:21:50] BrandiSea: [00:21:50] Yeah, Totally.

[00:21:51] Julie: [00:21:51] And then, you like finish 

[00:21:52] it up really quickly. 

[00:21:53] BrandiSea: [00:21:53] Yeah, it’s true. Yeah. I think that. Getting inside of our own heads is, is [00:22:00] is a good thing and a bad thing.

[00:22:01] It’s a good thing when you can get into your own head and like analyze, like you said, why and how you get distracted, but then also get out of your head, you know, to think about, okay, this is probably not as big a deal as I’m making it out to be. And, just do it and get it out of the way because ultimately,

[00:22:19] hopefully as creatives and designers, we are doing something that we love at the end, at the end of it, and there are, there are tasks that we are going to not love. We were watching cupcake Wars. And one of the cupcake ladies was like, “Oh, I’ve always wanted to own my own cupcake place, and now I do.

[00:22:39] And if you, if you love what you do, you’ll never work a day in your life.” And it was just like I just said, “Lies.” 

[00:22:45] Julie: [00:22:45] Yeah, 

[00:22:46] definitely not true. 

[00:22:47] BrandiSea: [00:22:47] It’s like, that sounds really really good. Like it sounds really nice on paper, but it’s like, okay, I love what I do. I’ve only ever wanted to do this, and I’ve always been able to do this, but sometimes I just [00:23:00] don’t want to, and I, it does feel like work.

[00:23:02] So just having the mindset of like, okay. There’s just this one little thing and I can do it and then it’s going to be done. 

[00:23:09] Julie: [00:23:09] Well, the great thing about that is too, like once it’s done, you have the satisfaction of marking it off the to do list and then it’s not hanging over your head anymore. You know, if you put something off for like two weeks.

[00:23:22] That’s two weeks of feeling like guilty that you’re not doing it and just like it’s always in the back of your head of like, I really need to do this. 

[00:23:30] BrandiSea: [00:23:30] Absolutely. 

[00:23:31] Julie: [00:23:31] Yeah. So like freeing up space to do other things and then just like feeling like, “Oh, it’s done. I did it, and. I don’t have to worry about it anymore.”

[00:23:42] BrandiSea: [00:23:42] Yeah. Something that I was just thinking about. I wrote a note for myself. Um, this is more in regards to like my bigger goals for the year, but I’m trying to figure ou ways that I can reward myself every time I reach a goal. But I was just thinking like I want, I think it might be a good strategy [00:24:00] for, for people that need a, you know, an immediate sort of reward for finishing a task.

[00:24:05] It’s like if you really, if you really need coffee at 10:30 every day, but you’re not, you know, you’re not finished with something. I’ve, I’ve actually tricked myself and been like, okay, I’m not gonna, I don’t get a coffee. I don’t get my second coffee. Let’s be real. That’s my second coffee. I don’t get a second coffee until I have finished this portion of whatever that I said I was going to work on.

[00:24:29] And it’s amazing. What, just a little like self-imposed incentive will do. Yeah. It’s like, “here, a child learning to use the potty. I will give you five M&Ms if you go right now and it works.” Yeah. 

[00:24:44] The reward system works.

[00:24:45] Julie: [00:24:45] I think that’s basically what this episode is about, is treat yourself like a child.

[00:24:51] BrandiSea: [00:24:51] I mean, You know… 

[00:24:52] Julie: [00:24:52] Remove distractions and incentivize yourself. 

[00:24:58] BrandiSea: [00:24:58] You are not wrong, [00:25:00] especially since my coworkers are children right now. That’s just the way it is. It’s true though. I think that it’s also good to have a little bit of grace on yourself and realize that just because we are grownups and just because we can run our business from home, that it’s, it’s not perfect and it’s not really feasible for us to place the expectation on ourselves that we will never ever get distracted because that’s for sure sort of doubles up and it’s like, then you start feeling guilty about

[00:25:30] being distracted and then start feeling guilty that you’re feeling guilty because… And it just kind of goes round and round and it’s like, okay, if you are hitting a point where you literally cannot for any reason, stay focused, leave the space, go do something else, get your mind off of it, and then you’ll actually be able to come back

[00:25:49] and you know, hopefully you can still come back and you’re not wasting the little bit of time that you had. But ultimately, if you’re sitting there scrolling on Instagram or Facebook or watching YouTube videos. Anyways, [00:26:00] it doesn’t matter that you’re sitting at your desk doing it. You’re still not working.

[00:26:06] Julie: [00:26:06] Yeah. And like you were talking about earlier between like the siren and the muse, like I feel like that’s kind of a fine line and it comes down to like being intentional about your time of saying, I’m going to go hunt for inspiration right now, or just pulling out your phone or like getting on a website and wasting time.

[00:26:26] BrandiSea: [00:26:26] Right. 

[00:26:27] Julie: [00:26:27] Like the intention is probably the thing that differentiates the two of them between really looking for inspiration and just stumbling on it because you were scrolling for two hours. 

[00:26:39] BrandiSea: [00:26:39] Yeah. You could easily just the, the tricky thing about the siren is that she disguises herself as a muse. And you have to, you have to be able to discern that.

[00:26:50] And if you’re not in the right mindset, and if you haven’t set yourself up for, like you said, “what am I actually supposed to be doing right now?” The siren is just going to be like, “look at [00:27:00] me. I’m actually inspiration over here, but I’m not going to give you anything to do with it. I’m just something pretty to look at

[00:27:06] and do nothing with. And that’s what we always talk about here, is making sure that your inspiration is actually actionable. And that’s, that’s the true test of whether you’re following your muse, or whether you’re following a siren.

[00:27:33] Again, that was “The Medicine” by Jeremy Renner. You can find him and this song on Spotify on our playlist, “Music From Design Speaks Podcast”.

[00:27:48] All right, everybody, that’s our episode for today. If you’d like to support design speaks, you can do so by sharing this podcast with a friend or head over to our Patreon page at patreon.com/designspeaks. Design [00:28:00] Speaks is produced by Kenneth Kniffin and Dakota Cook and me, Brandi Sea audio production by Kenneth Kniffin.

[00:28:06] Thanks to Colin from Vesperteen for our theme music. You can find Vesperteen on Apple music and Spotify. Design Speaks is a project of Brandy Sea Designs. It is recorded and produced in the shadow of the watermelon pink Sandia Mountains near Albuquerque, New Mexico. You can leave us a note on Instagram @DesignSpeaksPodcast and you can find all current and past episodes at DesignSpeaksPodcast.com.

[00:28:29] Thanks again for listening. Till next time…