TRANSCRIPTION:

[00:01] Hey guys, I’m Brandi Sea and

[00:03] I’m Michelle and you’re listening to episode 81 of Design Speaks. And on today’s episode we will be talking with Mike McQuaid. Mike McQuaid, Mike McQuaid. Who is he? Who is he? So the Internet is a wonderful place and even more so for me, instagram is my favorite place on the Internet. It’s kind of, I don’t, I don’t exactly know how I found him because you can’t really track how you find people anymore. Rabbit trail. See? Yeah, it’s like the wonder of the Internet. So, um, I did find him through instagram somehow. Um, he’s, he, I kind of got attracted to his work because it looked, it looked like collagey collage. The Best I can say is collagey, but um, he creates really interesting in this interesting and um, concept driven work, which is something that all you guys know I love so much.

[00:56] It’s a good concept. Um, he does a lot of editorial work. He uses a lot of type imagery, um, illustration east style. He’s worked with clients like the New Yorker, the Atlantic Fastco, the New York Times, Time magazine, variety, wired, Delta Airlines and Pentagram, and those that was like a less than a quarter of the people that would like on his list. I’m just like shaking my head because those are all such big names, huge names, and he’s also been recognized by creative outlets like communication arts type kit, Gq style, how magazine design taxi, and again, a lot more so we have, we, we record these intros after usually we talk to them, but he’s so humble. Yes.

[01:45] He’s super chill and really he’s really a cool guy and I’m, I hope that you guys really enjoyed this interview.

[01:55] Welcome to design. This lovely podcast is brought to you by a graphic design geek, music pop culture. Cool places. Basically whatever we feel is relevant.

[02:13] Well, welcome Mike.

[02:15] We’re so glad that you’re here. Thank you for joining us. Before we get like really into this conversation, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

[02:24] Sure. I’m a graphic artist, uh, currently living in Richmond, Virginia. Uh, I work on a broad array of projects, but a lot of people know me from my, like publication, illustration work and cover designs and things like that. So high concept kind of assemblage type stuff. I guess

[02:49] assemblage, I liked that I was trying to figure out like, is collagey the right word? I don’t think that’s a word. Collages and assemblages so much better. It’s like what do I put on my resume later? Collagey

[03:05] yeah. Sometimes it’s more graphic and sometimes it’s more like literal. I’m like collage material, but honestly I just try and focus on the right concept and it’s kind of see where that leads. Um, sometimes I get typecast into being just like a collage artist, which I don’t like, but

[03:23] you know, we’ll have to, we have to make a living and a cross to bear.

[03:29] So it’s not a bad thing. Um, I’ve been other things in the past too, so I just uh, keep, keep chugging along and try and focus on the concepts.

[03:38] Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got to kind of, do what you’re doing now?

[03:44] Sure. Um, so I went to a school in Philadelphia, uh, The Art institute of Philadelphia, since shut down because they were there basically misleading students. They are saying that everybody can get hired in the field of graphic design and they’re using that falsified data to get money from the government so that, my goodness, so they shut down. But I did learn a lot about like the tools but not a lot about how to concept and the philosophy of dine in general. Um, so in Philadelphia I graduated from there, I got my first job out of school, which is at a company called avenue a razor fish, which is now just razorfish. And I was doing like marketing banner materials for pharmaceutical companies. It was pretty cut and dry, not that exciting. And um, and then I was just honestly looking for a job that paid a little bit more because I wasn’t making enough to pay off my student loans. And I got a job at comcast interactive media, which is this, it’s like the interactive arm of comcast. So it’s not, it’s not like I’m going around and stalling thing.

[05:04] Yeah, it was a, their internal team and there I met my wife, my now wife, uh, Nicole. So she started working there as a designer and we met and then six months after we met, I took a lot of the work I was doing on my weekends and nights and I put a portfolio together and it ended up getting me a few interviews around like Chicago, New York and San Francisco areas. And I ended up landing on a job in Chicago mainly cause I really liked the design director. He was just really interesting and I hadn’t met anybody quite as quite as cool as him really. And uh, so I basically took it on that alone. And um, my, my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, I was like, Hey, you know, I want to move to Chicago and understand like we’re just new in this relationship but I’d love for you to come.

[06:05] And so she got in touch with the recruiter and she got a job at the same start date. So. So that’s how we made it from Philadelphia to Chicago and encouraging, it sounds like it happened pretty fast. It did. It was kind of like a whirlwind of this is what we’re supposed to be doing. Yeah. Um, so in Chicago I worked at BDO, which is the design director of talking to you about and I worked there for a couple of years, ended up climbing up to being designed director there. But working in advertising as a designer for me it was really difficult, um, because I couldn’t separate our director from designer and ad agencies I feel like, well, and ad agencies they do because they do a lot different. Lot of different types of things like the art director do video and sometimes they’ll do print campaigns and they’re always concept driven and they don’t really care about the execution and when they, when they hear the word designer or they feel like, oh, he’s the guy who puts it all together for me and that’s fine.

[07:12] But I didn’t want to transition into being an add art director. So I felt that my only option was to look elsewhere and I found a job at this really small company called Tom Dick and Harry, and they did do advertising, but they also did a lot of branding and a lot of printed materials and they were small enough so that I had a lot of interactions with clients and things like that. And, uh, I, I learned a lot, you know, I learned a lot about the business of design or the business of, you know, dealing with clients. Um, and from when I was working there, I was very happy. It felt like a forever place to me. Um, and uh, I ended up just like I always worked on my nights and weekends and did things that I wanted to do. I never felt fully fulfilled in a full time job.

[08:04] Um, there was things tugging at your heart elsewhere. I think it was just like client work can sometimes get like, monotonous. You don’t really feel like you’re expressing yourself. So to kind of break that, I would just, uh, kinda dream up these projects and do them on my own kind of thing. Um, I’ve got, I’ve got a lot of projects I’ve done in the past that I don’t even represent on my portfolio anymore, but um, things like I did like this area code project thing versus like, I don’t know, make cool numbers for code, but like it was a, it was an exercise in like poster design and typography and layout, etc. Um, so from when I was there, a lot of that work that was doing on the side, it just kinda, it got, it got bigger and bigger. And then I entered the art directors clUb, young guns staying and ended up winning.

[09:02] I saw that, I saw that on your page. I was like, wow, that’s pretty amazing.

[09:06] Yeah. And um, and then from there I guess I just had like a little bit more confidence to kind of go and do the things I wanted to do as opposed to the things that I felt like I had to do. So I took a leap of faith and just, um, I just, I told don tom, dick and harry, that wasn’t gonna work there anymore. It was very hard, but I still love those guys still keep in touch and um, I just basically told them I want to go out on my own and try it. And as soon as I went out on my own, I, I emailed every illustrator or designer I knew doing their own thing and uh, mikey burden, I don’t know if you know who he is, his name sounds really familiar. I’m sure you’ve seen his work. Been very, very good, very unique style.

[09:58] And I reached out to him and I was like, hey, like how did, how do you, how did you get into like illustration? And he’s like, oh, you know, you should, you should talk to him at dorfman at the New York times. and so I emailed matt dorfman. I said, hey, I’m new to this. I’m trying to get an illustration. If you ever have a need for a guy that does this type of work, and I sent him a link, just let me know. I’d be happy to help any emails right back and says, oh yeah, I recognize some of your work. Uh, yeah, we’ll be in touch shortly and I thought he’s just being nice here.

[10:32] A canned response. thank you.

[10:34] Yeah. Uh, but the next day he was like, you know, asking you shall receive. And um, I had my first, uh, New York times illustration. It was like a three day turnaround. Oh my goodness now is like, really, really, that’s a lot of time. I’ve had turnarounds with those guys that are literally like, they’ll email you at 1:00 PM and ask for finals by 6:00 PM.

[11:00] Oh man, I have so many questions for you, but I’m gonna let you finish your study.

[11:05] Uh, and then from there, richard turley who was at bloomberg business week, he reached out and I did a cover for them and then it just Kind of started to snowball. First year was like, the first year on my own was like a little weird. It was like, partly I was bouncing around from design agency to mall shops and helping out on branding projects while I was fostering this illustration path. Um, so the first year was a little weird in the next year is a little bit more illustration. The next year after that, a little bit more illustration and now I’m like in this weird space where I’m, I do like a broader acting like, um, I do branding projects still, um, but a lot of the bulk of my work, like I said, his illustration and a cover design and conceptual graphic arts. So,

[11:58] so. Okay. So I had like a list of questions that you kind of already sort of touched on, but I’m just going to go into a little deeper on some of these areas. So I’m. One of the major questions that I, that I had was how would you define editorial designer illustration for like non-designers? I’m part of our audience that we cater to is like what we call the regular human being. So the reason that michelle is my cohost besides that I love her, is that a designer, she’s not a designer. Um, And so our, our kind of deal is that we want to contInue to educate, um, people who are already creative end designers and illustrators in that kind of thing. But also I really want to help educate the regular folks out there that don’t understand what we do. So how would you define editorial design? What it is that you do to like the, the average person?

[12:52] So I mean, I can’t explain it a million ways, but I feel like it was best explained to me actually in my studio partner darren, where I work with you. You said you read an interview with richard turley in richard turley, said there’s some designers and I’m going to, I’m going to mess this up. Um, but some designers like make the structure for, for the box that they, they make the boxes and some fill the boxes. So basically there’s designers that like make the systems and then there’s designers like me who do the more conceptual like eye catching fill the boxes stuff. Um, and um, I’m always joking. That’s like my job. I just fill gray boxes

[13:39] it,

[13:41] the art director has a layout and then they need art that’s memorable or the typeface or tie ties to the story rather. And, but it also must stand on its own, you know, it has to, you have to get a gist of what it’s talking about just from the art too. So it is a, is a challenging space to be in. I’m not that being a system type designer isn’t a, it’s just what I do as much more art than it is design. I’m not really like solving any big problems per se. I’m just, I’m, I’m trying to visualize words.

[14:25] Yeah, that makes sense. So basically what editorial is to you is, um, work for words like filling a, a visual box, for words that have already been created.

[14:37] Yeah, like a creating a visual narrative for the piece perfectly. what is it, what encompasses this piece? And in a lot of the times it comes down to like the tone, like how has this written, isn’t uh, isn’t alarming piece. Is it a staff piece? Is it, um, bear all things but facts. Sometimes that can be a visual thing to kind of pick out of it. But I tend to read the piece and then read it over again and then read it over again. Try and come away with this stuff and even sometimes when I do that I’m wrong. And the art director is like, well you dIdn’t, this wasn’t the right tone. So we gotta readjust.

[15:22] So you’re, you’re kind of getting into it a little bit already, but what does your creative process or your design process or whatever you call it, your process look like, especially within a short amount of turnaround, like a few hours, what does that look like?

[15:39] Uh, the process is the same whether if I have a couple of weeks or a couple of hours really it’s,

[15:46] I was really hoping you would say it, but I still want to know what that looks like.

[15:52] So a lot of the tIme if I have, if I have like a manuscript or sometimes I’ll just have like a paragraph in a headline and some notes from the editor or the writer and I’ll take that and I’ll take notes from it. like what, what words stood out to me. And then I started making lists, like actual writing lists of trying to figure out visuals for those words. Um, that’s a really helpful exercise because my language, if you don’t feel like if you just stare at a blank page, nothing’s going to happen. But lately I’ve been trying to do the listing as a visual to um, where I’m just doing like really small thumbnails of trying to visualize the words and then like the, you know, just trying to think of other ways of saying the same thing that the author of the piece said because sometimes they’ll use words that don’t have a lot of visual, there’s not, there’s not a lot to visualize there, but like if you just open up with the source and you get a different word, this is the same thing that might open up a whole treasure trove of visuals for you to kind of radar.

[17:06] So I alwaYs start there and then I take it to sketches and then I refined the ones I really like. Um, And if it works for me, if it works as like a little bit, a little sketch, I know that it’ll nine times out of 10 translate really well. And as the final piece. So I use that as my judgment of what works and what doesn’t, but it’s always done nails and so writing sketch book

[17:35] and it comes from like, well experience and just knowing who you’re working for, whether it be yourself or the New York times, you know.

[17:44] Yeah. And I, I say assemblage because sometimes it might be tactile, tactile thing that I want to use if the concepts right for it. And an example Is I have a piece that I, I literally just stapled a poster on someone’s face and like, you can’t lodge but it’s not, it’s like the idea is in the fact that it looks lIke a, a poster hung up around college campuses and that’s what, that’s what the, the crux of a piece. Um, that makes sense. Yeah.

[18:16] So how do you incorporate, um, I’ve, I’ve noticed that you, you tend to, on occasion, based on what I’ve seen, I’ve been following you for a little while. Um, choose your color palette. There’s a lot of similarities in the colors that you tend to use. Um, but it sounds like you put a lot of effort into, you know, making sure that everything you do relates back to the piece. So how do, how do you take like color psychology and color theory and kind of what your drawn to and what your kind of waste is and kind of marry that to the voice of the piece that you’re looking at.

[18:52] Sure. Um, are you, if you’re referring to the black, red and tan that I use?

[18:58] I am indeed.

[18:59] Okay. Um, some honestly sometimes I get, I get typecast into that and they say, hey, we really like this palette. Alright. But other times like some, um, there is a bit of a narrative, some of the work I do. So I’ve done this. I did this piece for the Washington post about um, basically not understanding. Oh yeah, it was, it was for the New York times magazine. Trump was not understanding the relationship between the fbi and I’m the white house and because of his lack of understanding there, there’s a lot of chaos. So that’s how I worked on it with matt willy and it was just like his mother’s phase and then it’s like cutaways of fbi paper stuff. So it was the first time I used that palette. So every time I do a piece about mahler or trump or what’s happening right now, I am consciously using the red, tan and black because I feel like it’s an ongoing narrative. So I first did that fbi piece and then the next piece I did was about mahler getting closer and closing in on trump for the Washington post. And then I just did one for the sunday review cover where it’s basically they’re calling for republicans to ask for donald trump’s resignation because of the scandal and the investigations. So all of them have the same color palette because I see them almost as a series even though they’re done for different clients in the writing that we do.

[20:35] And did you know that when you were creating that, that that would be the color palette you used from here on out for that type of situation?

[20:44] Um, no. So I didn’t. When I started using it, it felt the color felt right for using like cut paper and documentation and then using something like red salt, rIght. For like filing and investigation. Um, and so when I stumbled upon that, I just thought, well, anytime I do, anytime I do a collage with trump and it’s dealing with the scandal that’s going on, it’ll be this palette. Um, and now I have three and I’m hoping that the next one’s the last one. I’m, I don’t, I’m not, I’m over that palette and I’m tending, I’m trying not to use it anymore. Um, but for that particular topic I’ll probably just keep, continue using it because it feels it also has like a slant towards propaganda and I feel like that’s a relevant tie because of russia’s involvement in what’s going on. But yeah,

[21:46] absolutely agree with that. So on your website it says that your work “transcend” style. So I don’t know if you wrote that, but I’m just curious, like what does that mean to you? Because even if outside of the colors themselves, you do have a style. Um, what, how would you describe your style, your look? Um, do you not like say people saying that you have a style? Is that why you kInd of like, I transcend style, I rebuke skin, that’s the whole thing of style.

[22:21] Um, I really don’t have a style. Everybody ends up having a style they end up having the way they approach things I guess, but I’ve always admired people that were able to just take somethIng and like a topic and uh, not have any preconceived notions of how it’s gonna end or what will be the outcome. Um, viSually instead of just beIng open minded and letting, letting the process of figuring it out dictate where I go visually with things like executional wise.

[23:02] Um, I definitely agree that as far as, you know, as much as you try and get away from style and ended up, you know, you just end up having an approach and I, but I don’t, I don’t like resting on my laurels and there’s definitely like a collage paper caught up style that I do that I’m just, I’m, I’m over. And I’m definitely finding new ways to do it. Which is exciting and I think uh, you know, like anything though, like if someone comes to you and they really liked your work as an artist and they want that for their piece, I’m not going to argue with them as to why I don’t want to do it, you know, I’m bored with it, don’t pay me instead just try and evolve that every time I touch it and it may not look that way from the outside, but there’s been a lot of evolution in the, the actual cut paper abstractions style that I’ve created. So just continue and be open and open minded to letting other executions kind of come through. So

[24:08] what, I don’t know, are you, I don’t know if you’re at home or in a coffee shop right now, if you’re at home that I’m jealous of your brick wall. Um, but um, what physIcal place inspires you the most? What like just to get to work and you know, create.

[24:25] Well, I’m actually in my Design studio

[24:28] so we are definiTely 100 percent gel or jealous

[24:31] rotation. Okay.

[24:35] Who cannot see this? It’s like this huge brick studio, well lit, beautiful spot.

[24:45] Well, I must, I must aDd that is not mine. Um, I share it with my, my design partner, darren higgins, he’s a, he’s a graphic designer and he sits on the other side, so we kind of have it split

[24:57] and we envy you botH.

[25:00] Uh, and in terms of like what inspires me,

[25:06] physical,

[25:08] a physical place. Gosh, I have a three year old, so anywhere that’s quiet,

[25:15] there is nothing wrong with that. Have a four year old, so I get to have a five. And you have a son, right? Yeah. Yeah. I had when my son was three years old, god help me, so I understand completely. I like love my daughter so much, but when she was three I wanted to give her away. I love you. Can you come back when you’re.

[25:41] Oh yeah. It’s tough. Yeah. Yeah, it’s tough.

[25:44] That’s awesome. Wait, this doesn’t need to be a parenting podcast, but then done so, so quiet as in like. Do you really appreciate silence or is it just like, like does it count as quiet? Does a coffee shop count is quiet for you, like what does that, what does that look like to you?

[26:05] Honest. Okay. So I think what are the way I answered this as I think some people thrive on like New York city streets or something that’s got a lot of energy and I don’t think that’s how. I don’t think that’s how I get a lot of creative juices. I think. I think just like a, even just being in my studio when it’s quiet is really inspiring to me. Um, I definitely think it’s, it’s, it’s also good to like for me because my day is mostly quiet. we keep it really quiet here because we have to, we both have do quite about quite a bit of thinking and sketching and et cetera. Um, but it’s always nice to break that with the x, the polar opposite. Right? So when I do go to New York cargo, you know, um, loving it and then I kind of take that with me and I’m, I’m, I’m glad I don’t have to be in it, but It, it, uh, I appreciate the contrast. But you know, I know this is a bad answer,

[27:14] I really just don’t know that answer. I mean, I mean, Brandi can’t work in silence. That’s her thing. She cannot. Okay. But some of your camera

[27:24] I can’t even have music on if I’m thinking music I only put on if once I landed on something and I can um, start really like working out the final details.

[27:35] Yeah. so the hard thinking work because I have a very similar process. Um, I have this thing where I say I say use words first, like in the process of my design as well, but when I’m using words I can’t be listening to words. So I have playlists that are all instrumental for kind of that, that focus time because if I hear words I’m immediately distracted by the words and it takes away from the word doing. I’m trying to figure out for my clients and stuff. So, um, I get it. I mean it’s, it’s basically my equivalent to your silence is like having no words in my music and that makes sense. No, that, that would probably work for me as well. I guess I’m just,

[28:14] I’ll share my playlist with you. Appreciate it. Um, so would you say you started off kind of talking about like your, a graphic artist. Um, so do you consider, do you consider yourself more a designer illustrator is, is that like you’re saying you just say I’m a graphic artist and how do you define that?

[28:36] Sure. Um, I guess I define it as, you know, we’re, we’re all in I guess in some grade whether you’re a designer and illustrator. We are, we are artists. We’re, we’re putting visuals to content and um, I think graphic artists sums up what I do best because um, it’s not like I used to do a lot of like long form design stuff and website design stuff and branding projects I still do from time to time, but I consider that to be like graphic design, problem solving in its truest sense a. Whereas like I am adding a layer to that. That is art.

[29:21] It’s my approach to things is, is artful. Um, it’s not systematic. It’s one off pieces that happened sometimes in ours, you know, so I think it’s a, a proper definition for what I do. Since we went back a bit. I want to go back to when you were talking about leaving your actual like I dunno, day job or whatever to pursue what you’re doing now. Um, whAt do, if, if any, did you experience any fear anxieties because jumping out of a solid, like whether it be monday through friday, eight to five can seem scary. So can you talk to us about lIke, I don’t know, you created your own opportunity and how did that feel?

[30:12] Well, no, I don’t downplay it at all. There’s a lot of anxiety and a lot of fear about what would happen and I feel like some people are quick to tell young designers or designers in general like, you know, if you’re, if you’re looking to jump jump, but just lIke all things, you just gotta you gotta plan It out, right. And um, take, take risks for sure. But I wouldn’t say throw away, throw away your job when you depend on it month and month and you’re, you haven’t really even touched or you haven’t even put your foot in the water of what freelance life would look like. I would say for anyone looking to go out on their own, contact people, talk to people that are doing it, you’ll find that the grass is always greener though. There’s sometimes where I miss having a full time job and I’m just being able to go in and get my task and that’s, that’s what I’m going to.

[31:19] Uh, you know, all the hands off stuff with the bookkeeping is not on me. And invoicing and chasing invoicing is a. And the paying for health insurance isn’t on me. you take on a lot of things when you go on your own, that take years to get to a place where you feel like it’s kinda like this well oiled machine. um, it doesn’t just happen overnight. Like my first, my first year out, I cut my salary in half and I had already cut my salary before leaving tom, dick and harry because they were a small shop, so I took a pay cut going there. Then I saw my funds even window further and I was like, alright, well maybe I’m going to do this. Like maybe I can, maybe this is dumb, but I kind of just stuck to my guns and just figured out new ways to promote myself and you know, It’s hard. It’s really hard for me to even put work out in the world because then once I’m done with it, it’s like when the tread starts almost immediately, like I would’ve done this differently

[32:28] to be okay with it being done.

[32:30] Yeah. And fighting through that and doing a little bit of self promotion is achy as it feels sometimes. It’s, it’s you have to

[32:39] salespeople

[32:40] as freelancers, you are the brand, you are your brand. Like you know, you are the product when you put yourself out on instagram or facebook or whatever. And it does. I agree that it kind of starts to feel icky and, and a little self serving in like a not good way, but when you think about it, it’s like, okay, self serving in this aspect can be okay because it’s serving My, my life, you know, my food on the kids’ table and you know, it’s serving a purpose. It’s not just for my ego right now because I’ve been doing it for so long. It’s getting to this point where I have like new new fears, like, well how long can I do this as a solo designer and do I hire somebody or I’m getting a little bit older, should I try and be a creative director somewhere? Um, and then I’m like, well I haven’t worked in an office setting

[33:38] awhile.

[33:41] There’d be a whole new host of anxieties with that. So

[33:46] I recently was, if you’re a freelancer and you’re trying to figure out like, what things should I hire out for? It’s like, what things do not give you joy when you do them. if it’s like, if you don’t enjoy like the bookkeeping part, like hire someone to do that and you continue doing like the creating and what you really love. Yeah. I hate, I hate the bookkeeping part one. I don’t have the like self motivation to go out on my own. So I think I will always be in a place where I work at a daytime job, but also I suck with money. Oh my gosh, I could not do any of that. I could not keep any of that in order. I would go to. It would fall to pieces so fast in my life.

[34:28] So my um, my wife nicole, she’s also a graphic designer and we were doing work together for years. We would do branding work together and we had our son and we decided that one of us wanted to be home with him for the first three to four years of his life. Um, and it’s really tough. I mean she’s given up a lot to do that and she’s also taken on the burden sometimes with doing the bookkeeping. So like, I feel really bad. We have to like address this immediately because we’re keeping nobody in but most don’t, most creative done enjoy by keeping, bless their hearts because that’s what last year I kind of, I kind of slid that on her, which I feel very guilty about.

[35:23] We were goIng to like, so I should probably get off the podcast and, and go talk to my wife. Right.

[35:31] Are, there’s things that we do have in motion that are like just repetitive, like every year we have to just get some things done out the door to our accountant. We do have an accountant. Um, so it’s not that bad, but I do get yelled at from time to time for that. Chasing invoices properly or

[35:51] oh man, I understand. To an extent, I understand that because I had to like get people’s receipts. I’m like, give me your receipt or your first bar and like where’s the receipt? She works with the creative where they have a creative team of videographers and producers. Um, I don’t even know what your title is right now. My actual title, I don’t know if they kind of made it up. It’s called creative producer, so I don’t know. I do a lot, so she has to do a little Bit of that, like tracking of stuff. Yeah. What amount of time? I’m like chunk or percentage. Um, would you say that you spend on improving what you do self improvement of like your passion projects compared to your paid work?

[36:37] Yeah, uh, I kind of treat everything like a sketchbook, you know, um, even the New York times piece, I think the revelation I had about a year or two introducing that stuff is some are going to be really good and some are going to be really bad and you can learn from all of it. Um, and just, I think the answer is like, keep going. You’re only as good as the last thing you made really and designed. I feel like it feels like, you know, once I think once I learned to just enjoy the process and not get so frustrated that like it’s become more fun. Um, that’s the way that sometimes I’ll send stuff out to an art director and I’ll just sit there and wait for them to say like, this doesn’t work because I know, I know. They don’t think, I know they’re going to think it doesn’t work. Um, but I tried and I know we’ll probably, we’ll get it right. It’s not that serious. It’s not like we’re performing brain surgery and uh, someone’s lives in our hands at it. Just, I’m just trying to have a little bit more fun with it.

[37:47] I mean, if you’re creating wayfinding for the highway, someone’s lives might be in danger.

[37:51] That’s true between the graphic artists and like a graphic designer when they have actual responses.

[38:04] Oh shoot, I just forgot my question. I had a really good question. Dang. Oh no, it’s fine. It’s fine. let’s move on and then I’ll interrupt. You know, um, so you sAid that basically are first year, first kind of entrance Into this editorial world was like a friend gave you a name, um, has everything just kind of built off of that, um, or has it been more like you finding who to contact? And such and such magazine or at such and such publisher and saying, hey, I would love to do a design for

[38:36] you. What is, what is like breaking into that world look like it’s a lot of just annoying people, really annoyed a lot of people. And finally I got a couple of breaks. So just like continuously emailing or. And then when you get the breaks It’s important to just like give it your all. I like that New York, the first New York times piece I did and this is ridiculous. And probably most illustrators or because I wasn’t an illustrator, you know, I, I was never trained as an illustrator. Um, but I always loved High concept things that resonated and were memorable. Um, so I, I literally stayed up all night and I did like, I don’t know how many sketches but a ton of sketches, a way too many. And then okay. Same thing as too many. Too many sketches. Yeah. But I guess what I wasn’t paying attention to, which I was try and pay attention to more now is like, not only do I have to like it, but I also like trying where the editor’s hat, like once the editor going to say this because they can be quite literal minded. Uh, so I feel like if I, if I saw, if I solve an illustration and it’s hitting all those marks, but it’s also like really interesting to me. That’s kind of the gauge that I use now. But I would say if you’re coming into illustration as a, as a young illustrator,

[40:13] um,

[40:15] you design are not just an illustrator matter. Yeah. I kind of feel like nowadays they hire everybody from all these different disciplines to do artwork. So I would just say keep, keep pounding the pavement and emailing people the best places to look for our directors or just in magazines. They’re always in the contents page that we listed. And you can find an email pretty easily or if you have a favorite illustrator, artist or designer emailed them. The good ones are always accessible. Um, the nasty ones, we’ll probably post your message on instagram or something and try and make people laugh at it, but you gotta like take off. They’re probably not that good, honestly. It’s just very insecure if they do that in my opinion. Right. Um, so yeah, it’s a very, it’s a very small community and even though like some people might, you might think, oh, well they’re all the way up. They’re like, they wouldn’t, they even, I think even michael beirut emails everyone back. So, um, yeah, I’d say reach out, get curious, and don’t get, don’t get, don’t get discouraged if you hear no, I mean, gosh, there’s so many no’s you’re going to hear. So

[41:38] that’s really good. You kind of touched on it in this, but I remember my question, um, when you, you said that you have created something and you send it off and you, you, you just sit back and wait for them to not like what you did not agree with, like the tone or whatever. When that happens, do you know that they just don’t know what they want or like what is the deal with that?

[42:04] Oh no, I guess whAt I meant by that is it’s always funny to me how I can have a certain takeaway from the text and how sometimes it can be so off the mark. I am now at peace with it.

[42:19] Read it differently than them.

[42:22] Yeah. Right. So, and if, if my, if our timeline is like really tight, I’ll usually just straight up asked the art director, like what dO you think that the main takeaway of this piece is? And then that usually helps them because then when you go and you go in and you read it tone, you can take away things with that in mind. Like it has to, has to kind of, they kind of put some parameters on it which can be helpful, especially if the piece is, like I said, dry or has a million different points of view on things. It’s not that easy to solve something like that.

[43:00] That’s helpful. That’s helpful because I mean, I, I do work in a creative department where sometimes I’m like, there are graphic designers and illustrators that I also work with, um, where what they have given to the person who needs it is not at all what they wanted and I just think it’s because they didn’t have that direction or that the takeaway that they should have. Um, so that would just, that’s really good. Thank you for sharing because sometimes I’m just like, what, why do we keep doing wrong? Like how do we keep messing this up so.

[43:32] Well, I’ll also say that sometimes you just have a difficult client who doesn’t really know what they’re looking for and that’s fine. If that’s, if that’s your client, then part of your job as a designer then is instead of jumping into visuals is just having a lot of conversations about what, what, what it is we’re trying to Do. Absolutely. Trying to make them figure it out, just define it. Yeah.

[44:03] That’s good. Um, so, uh, let’s see, how do I phrase this? Um, what is the thing in, in like your everyday that like kind of motivates you to do what you do not like, oh, I get up early aNd necessarily or anything like that. But like internally, like what’s Your, what’s your motivation to create?

[44:24] Yeah. Um, so at this point I’d say my biggest motivation is just, I feel like iT’s such a part of my identity now. I’m like, if I don’t do some sort of illustration work for a couple of weeks, like I tried to take some time off. I honestly just feel out of sorts And like,

[44:52] uh,

[44:53] just like kind of generally unhappy and I think it’s because I, I just, uh, I just enjoy this stuff so much. Um, and I’d say my biggest motivation for doing it,

[45:09] um,

[45:11] it’s just like I feel like as a designer or an artist, I get to contribute to society in a way and history in a way. Doing pieces for the New York tiMes is, that’s pretty awesome. Not something that’s been that way. Yeah. Not something that I take for the money. I can tell you that they are a newspaper, but their writers are extraorDinary. The pieces that they, they drop are affecting real life. I mean there’s the reason we are where we are with this president is because a lot of the investigative journalism that has been done with the New York times and Washington post and the leg. So I feel like it’s work that matters. Feels. Yeah, for the. I mean I’m, I’m a graphic designer. I’m not going to change much, but uh,

[46:08] I feel like I carved out this nice little space where for now I’m having a good time. Uh, holding people accountable. yeah. And again, I don’t write the piece. I can contribute by making a piece of art that may, may help them get a few more views

[46:26] for sure. they memorable as it’s being shared around

[46:30] you. Also what you do is a draw into the, the meat of what’s happening. It’s like see your, your cover illustration design, all of that stuff and kind of pick it up that it’s like, that’s, that’s the grab and then everything else kind of follows. So I, I would say that it’s pretty important.

[46:49] Yeah, yeah. No, and that. So that’s, that’s like a big, that’s a big motivator. But you know, there, there, there is also a job too. So I do do more commercial stuff, stuff for big brands and I’m happy to do those as well. Okay. I guess I’m just at this point in my life I’m not, I’m not going to like be able to. Well I could but I’m not, I’m probably not going to switch careers.

[47:18] This is what you do

[47:19] and the. Yeah. It’s very much a part of my dna. Yeah. So speaking of better or worse,

[47:27] speaking of kind of what people see what, what have, what are the people who are the people that you follow on social media right now? That I’m inspire you.

[47:39] Oh wow.

[47:41] You not the same all but just some off the top of your head?

[47:44] Yeah. Well I

[47:47] a pride and mess up their names would be quite honest because it’s not have like a working relationship. RIght? Some are my. Okay. So system I’ll, I’ll kind of camp it out. My favorite, like system designers are, I’m ben, I’m going to mess up his last name, but grand to get a, it’s probably not how you pronounce it, but I’ve worked with them a few times. He’s in New York times magazine designer and he’s just kinda like a really beautiful approach to handling editorial layout and design. Uh, and then is part one of his partners, matt. Really, they’re like my two favorite systems designers. Uh, one of my favorite design directors, uh, is bricklayer, also the New York times magazine. Um, and in terms of like book jacket designers, I mean it’s probably like the answer here, every designer, but oliver monday peter mendelsohn,

[48:49] I hear more chips.

[48:51] Oh really? Uh, those guys are great. Uh, uh, rodrigo corral is really good. Um, and then on the art side, you know, braulio and motto is really great. Um, oh, a crayon peterson is a favorite of mine. Um, I feel like I’ve gone, it changes week.

[49:20] yeah, I agree.

[49:22] Like not a good. It’s not,

[49:26] that’s not supposed to be an exhaustive list by any means, but I do like that you’ve broken it out and like these types of people for this and this person for this and this person for this. So that’s all kind of have like those categories. Um, a lot of what I talk about on here is like I’m finding inspiration everywhere. And um, I liked that you do, you did spell out those categories because it’s not, you know, I, I am a firm believer that graphic desIgners should not only follow graphic designers and illustrators should not only follow illustrators because the melding of these disciplines is what’s going to make you super unique. Um, so I think that that’s great and I’m just gonna have you send me all of those links to those people because I’m probably not spelling them right, even though I’m writing them down.

[50:11] Actually come to think of it. I’d say my, my favorite artist right now is a ramsey do all he does these,

[50:19] um,

[50:20] they’re hyper realistic, large paintings, unglued, collages. They’re just, I mean, he’s tall. He’s just tapped into this like thing that it just feels so right and it’s just beautiful work. Uh, and I, I do tend in my practice, I tend to look more. I try and pay attention to the world I do, but I also try and pull inspiration more so from the experimental art world. Do from the graphIc design illustration

[50:57] sort of stuff.

[50:59] Yeah. Because what ends up happening is like you take like a group, like land land boys, they do all this really interesting branding projects and they had like a thing and I don’t know how they started, I don’t know where they found their type, their corgi type faces or a way to go about icons that way, but I’m sure they found it in some sort of artifact or maybe circumstantial or accidental. Um, and then they kind of establish it and then next thing you know, you hop on dribble and it’s like, well everyone looks like they’re doing land boy stuff.

[51:36] Yeah. They’re affecting here. Your inspiration a little too much.

[51:42] yeah, because I doubt, I doubt landed. Did that adult. They hopped on dribble and we’re like, hey, let’s, you know, I’m sure they were looking around the world and they found something.

[51:52] Yeah. That’s so important. Okay. So we have almost officially taken up an hour of your time, so thank you. But we have a few more questions that went by really fast. I really like, shoot it says 52 minutes on here. We have a little segment that we like to call stuff we ask everyone and so these aren’t supposed to be like, you know, super deep questions, although you can if you want, but we just want to ask you them and see like off the top of your head, what is going on? you start right now. What are you listening to or reading or watching?

[52:31] Okay. Um, I just finished a paul rand’s book conversations with students, as dorky as that is.

[52:39] No, but it’s paul rand.

[52:43] Aside from that, uh, I don’t have any other books going right now. I did. I just finished a country dark or have you ever heard of that? Is it’s a really good about a guy returning home from the war and working in the hollers is a moonshiner moon jack on rates and stuff like that. Uh, music. And this is probably going to make me sound like an old man, but I’ve been listening to jeff [inaudible] new album a lot. I think it’s called a. Oh gosh, what it’s called.

[53:21] Okay.

[53:22] Hi. It’s bill. Pay attention to. So what things. So I’ve been listening to that and kind of obsessed with parquet courts. So what does that last one? A parquet courts.

[53:34] I’ve never heard of it. Is that music? Yep. Oh, okay. I didn’t attempt to spell that and then look it up. We have so much research to do after that, after we get off the phone with his friends. Um. Okay. Describe yourself in three words. Good luck.

[53:55] Uh, mm. Quiet.

[54:04] Uh,

[54:07] I feel like if you stopped at quiet that’d be appropriate. I don’t think too hard. Don’t think too hard. Fought. Quiet. More quiet. Really quiet.

[54:20] But um,

[54:22] I like quiet. That’s what I don’t know. That’s a tough one. That is. We can just leave it at quiet and leave it at quiet. I like that. It’s kind of appropriate. When you wake up, what is the first thing you do in the morning besides p? Everyone says p.

[54:45] Uh, I usually pry my three year old off my face.

[54:49] Huh?

[54:51] You still in bed with us? Yes.

[54:53] My four year old ended up in our bed last night, so I was like, I got kicked a lot. She talked to me a bit. It was like 2:00 AM and like, what are you doing?

[55:05] Yeah, he, he’ll go, oh goodness, we’ll put him in his bed and then I’ll end up crawling over to us and I wake up. I usually wake up with him sitting on my face or kick in the face. So it’s always something to do with my face in him.

[55:21] Right. My day sounds like a challenging wake up. Um. Okay. Uh, what do you geek out about?

[55:31] I don’t know. I’m pretty low key. Like a, I guess I geek out if I like see something on the street that I know I can turn into art like immediately and like then it’s like the most boring thing and I’ll even show you the picture that I took to my wife and she’s like, this is what it is. I don’t know if this. Um, so that’s, I’d say that’s my obsession. Then I’ll know that people understand

[55:57] like turning something mundane. And

[55:58] like the other day I walked by a laundromat and on the door had a, the hours, seven to five, seven to five, seven to five, monday through sunday. And it was like the black and white and they had some numbers in red but it made an interesting pattern. And then it had like blue painter’s tape, but like 20 layers of it all around creating this huge blue border. Like, oh, well those colors work together and here this person didn’t know they were doing anything like graphic design. But it looks like anything, any yale student designs right now, um, my opinion, I’m just going to take the picture of that and make it or they get back to the studio.

[56:47] Oh, that’s fine. We need to talk more because this is like my life seriously. Like I, I get, I get you on this level and it’s something that it is a little bit hard to explain to people because it’s like, I saw this really cool crack in the pavement and it looked like this whole layout thing might be really fun for a poster or something. And everyone’s like, I don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s okay. I get it.

[57:13] Yeah. Nowadays it’s really easy. Just take a picture of it. Yes. Bring it into photoshop. Make it black and white. Print it, scan it. And sorry.

[57:22] Yeah. Now I know your secret. You go. Just kidding. It’s probably not as easy as that. I’m not going to even attempt it. So

[57:29] no, I’m, I’m the worst. I have cave men like skills when it comes to technology, unfortunately

[57:37] or fortunately because it sets you apart.

[57:41] A lot of my shapes that I use in my work are all hand cut. None of it is digital. Even though the ended up the process ends up making a digital. Oh, that’s cool.

[57:53] I love that. Love that. Are you a morning noon or night type of person?

[57:58] I’m definitely a night person, but that really messes with being a dad and trying to keep some sort of scheduled during the day a little bit and I hate admitting it because I don’t want people to think I work all the time because I, I try and take breaks. I really do. I feel like it’s important, but you know, my, my, my day to day schedule from I’d say monday through friday is come into the office around nine, 9:30. Stay here until about five, 5:30. Go home, dinner, put my son to sleep around 8:30, pick up my laptop and I usually work till about midnight or two in the morning.

[58:39] So you’re saying okay on just a little sleep then?

[58:42] Yeah, I always have some people can. Yeah. And my son I think has that, which is unfortunate for us, but we were hoping he would definitely requires less sleep than most three year olds.

[58:58] Why do you wake up with him on your head or kicking in your head or whatever. So, um, so when are you most productive? So if that’s at night, like, or if that’s when you first get to work in the morning. So even if you’re a night person, are you also most productive at that time or when would you say is your most productive?

[59:21] I’m definitely most productive in the morning hours oddly. Um, because that night it’s usually like, okay, the emails have stopped and I can like focus down and get the things wrapped up that it wasn’t able to do during the day. And I know I kind of feel like our directors aren’t going to bug me that late. So for like if I had promised something that day, but I knew we had until the next morning. It gives me that extra few hours to really become happy with the piece before sending it off. And then in the morning it’s usually just like, I usually just like, well be able to quickly get the things out the door. It’s a mix. Like I need the night in order to be productive in the morning.

[01:00:09] That makes sense. Yeah, definitely. All right. Next question. What superhero do you relate to most and why?

[01:00:17] I guess I’d have to say, I guess I have to say batman because

[01:00:25] explain please.

[01:00:27] I don’t know. I think he saw like tragedy as a youngster, you know, and that kind of changed his tune about life. And I kinda had some similar stuff happened. I was a kid like that. And then um, the whole.

[01:00:43] Yeah.

[01:00:45] Playing two roles in between design and illustration. I don’t know.

[01:00:50] I love hearing. I love hearing can answer this question because it’s meant to be a little open ended. You can change your answer later if you want. I like that you made this work and it sounds legit. Designers are good at that. Like making this sound legit. Yeah. Um. Okay. Okay. You kind of talked about this a little bit in the beginning of the interview, but what would you, what would your mom tell your friends? You do tell her friends and her friends. I do like my son.

[01:01:21] Then I do logos.

[01:01:25] Better magazines. You design magazines. oh, this. This question was inspired by brandy. Is mom because her mom. What does your mom say that you do? Um, I’m a graphics artist.

[01:01:39] Graphics artists. Yeah.

[01:01:40] I’m like, I don’t know what that is.

[01:01:45] My mom, uh, she kind of pushed me into the arts a little bit too, so she has a little bit of better understanding of things. Like when I said I was going to school for graphic design, I didn’t know what graphic design was and she did.

[01:01:57] Hey, come on. Yeah, mom. That’s good. That’s amazing. Yeah. I find that a lot of parents, but especially moms just don’t know how to tell their friends what they’re, what you do as a creative and yeah. I don’t even think my dad knows what I do. Oh, what? YoUrs is a little complicated. I don’t know that I just. Do I do things or do things I get paid for? I work with people. I work with people in an electric seats. Collect receipts, dad. Okay. Last the deepest question that we have. How do you want to be remembered?

[01:02:34] Hm.

[01:02:37] I guess I want to be remembered as a designer

[01:02:41] who

[01:02:45] didn’t treat young designers like their kids and kind of help. Help, help. I want to be able to help young designers get into the field or

[01:02:53] um,

[01:02:55] not be so stingy.

[01:02:57] We’ve

[01:02:58] not having a scarcity mindset when it comes to work

[01:03:02] you project, you know, as some do. Um, I’m, I’m always, uh, I’m always accessible and I’m always meeting with young designers and talking with young students. Um, and I guess I just want to be remembered as that is a nice guy who didn’t take it too serious and um, along the way was able to, um, be a part of history with, with the work that he had done.

[01:03:27] Well, I can pretty solidly say that you are a nice guy. We just met officially, but we’ve enjoyed so much havIng you on the podcast. Thank you for making time for us today and being accessible. Yes, absolutely. And speaking of being accessible, how can people find out more about you?

[01:03:47] Uh, well I’d say my instagram handles updated very frequently. Uh, it’s just my name like mcquaid. So at mike mcquade and I’m, I’m about a week away from launching a brand new website. I’m stretching that timeline. I, I’m probably ready now, but

[01:04:07] well you just committed to it on air so you haven’t got a week from today.

[01:04:12] Meaning to a week is good because I am kind of ready but um, but yeah, so uh, mike mcquaid.com is my website so that’ll be nice and freshly updated, but I’d say instagram has a lot of work that I do not only for clients but just personal and um, maybe I’ll get into making like live video things of me working, I don’t know.

[01:04:35] GreAt. The future is full of possibility. Yeah. Well thank you mike. We appreciate you being here with us. Have a great day. Thanks for having me here as well.

[01:04:52] So there it is. That was mike mcquaid. Go ahead and check him out on all of those outlets that he told you about and we will also post all of them in our show notes. Yes, and I’m hopefully going to get a good list of all the spellings of all the things that he talked about. He said some words That I was like, I can’t spell that and I’m pretty good at spelling. I spelled good. You talk. Good to talk. Good. But no seriously go check out his stuff. Go check out some of the references and inspirations that he mentioned. So worth it. I’m michelle. Where can people find us? Well, You can find us on all forms of social media as well via at brandy [inaudible]. Spell your name for b r a n d I s e a and and speaks podcast is. I’d add that to our script script at design speaks podcast is our instagram.

[01:05:47] I’m trying to do like. I’m trying to be really cUrated. It looks great. You guys. Our design speaks podcast. Instagram looks awesome. I can’t. I’m like afraid to touch it. Stop anything I do. I’m like, that’s. It doesn’t look as cool. Sorry, because I actually got compliments. I personally got compliments for the work that you’re all set. Thanks. Um, that’s not me. I’ll just give you the brand guidelines and you can just sort of try to stick to that and we’ll go from there. I’m going to need that, but. So go check us out on instagram via at design speaks podcast as well, or you can even email us brandy at brandi of [inaudible] dot com. If you have any questions, comments, shout outs. I’m also rate and review us on itunes. It’s a really cool way to say hey, and if you get any value from this little show, it’d be amazing if you could give us that review, but also share this episode with friends.

[01:06:43] Sharing is caring and hey, I’m telling you nobody did it, but if you shared the podcast and you screenshot that, you shared it, there will be some sort of prize waiting for you. Yup. Yup. So it’s just waiting, just waiting for someone to do that. We also launched our patrion patrion.com/design speaks. Yes. So go check it out. There are ways to get involved in spreading the joy of good design. We’ll talk more about that next week. Sounds good. as for right now, thank you to vesper team for letting us use his song shattered in the night as the intro and outro to our podcast. I’m again, go check out all the show notes

[01:07:25] for any other information. Till next weekend. The.