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[00:02] Hey guys, I’m BrandiSea

[00:03] and I’m Michelle

[00:04] and you’re listening to a bonus episode. We never, we don’t day. We never have we ever before have done a bonus episode. Never done it.

[00:12] So you’re welcome world.

[00:14] Um, we have an interview for you today with the great James Victore.

[00:20] You’ve heard about him before on Design Speaks um, Brandi went to one of his retreats a few years ago and he’s been a part of Design Speaks at least through, um, through inspiration and just talking about since the beginning.

[00:35] Yeah. Almost since the very beginning. Yeah. When I went to the retreat, we had only been doing this podcast for what, two months?

[00:40] Yeah.

[00:41] Yeah. So I’m, James Victore does a little intro of himself, but I will just try and deal a tiny smidge of my own. Um, James Victore is a creative, I would say encourager. He’s, um, he wants us as creatives to push our limits, push our boundaries, challenge the way we think about how we work. And, um, he has a lot of really great insight. He’s a blast to talk to and um,

[01:11] I think you guys will enjoy this interview and at least be encouraged and motivated at to get out there and do that as well as read the words he has to say in his brand new book.

[01:20] Yeah. And DISCLAIMER. Um, he’s James Victori so he’s got a bit of language. So if that’s something that you care to not listen to, um, may want to skip this episode, but I highly encourage you to just get through it if that’s something that bothers you because his, his words are so valuable.

[01:35] He’s NSFW so just put some headphones on if you’re good with it and

[01:40] no kids, all that jazz.

[01:42] So enjoy.

[01:46] Welcome to Design Speaks. This lovely podcast is brought to you by a graphic design geek, and a regular human being. We’re here to chat about music, pop culture, cool places and basically, whatever we feel is relevant.

[02:03] Hey guys, first of all, I would like to welcome our very special guest James Victore to Design Speaks. Welcome James.

[02:12] Howdy ladies

[02:15] Ooh, ladies,

[02:15] He’s, he’s from, he can say that cause he’s in Texas. Howdy.

[02:19] Have you always said howdy? Or is this just since you’ve been in Texas?

[02:23] I am. You know what? I have always said howdy. You know, all the time in New York. I would, you know, and I, when I travel I get up on stage and that’s the first thing I say I just, it, just comes natural.

[02:33] So it was just natural for you to move to Texas. So it

[02:37] Well, yeah. Yeah. To make the Howdy fit better. Sure.

[02:41] So, um, I wanted to give you a chance to just do your, your five minute or less, like for those of everyone in our audience who have never heard of James Victore, who are you and where are you and what do you do?

[02:58] Oh, Lord, I hate that part.

[03:00] I do too. I’m, I’m making you be uncomfortable since you did it to me for a few days.

[03:05] Tell us everything about yourself. Brandi and Michelle. Traditionally, I am a graphic designer. Um, um, went to New York when I was 19 to become a designer and commercially had a, had a great career. Um, and then I woke up one day and I realized that I’m a pretty good graphic designer, but I’m a much better teacher, meaning I’m pretty good graphic designer, meaning I can have two shows at the Museum of Modern Art and my work in most of the major museums around the world.

[03:40] That’s pretty good.

[03:43] It’s pretty good. So I taught there and I realized I was teaching third year graphic design and I really was not teaching graphic design. I wasn’t teaching anything about color or form or, or shape or typography or I was trying to urge students to, to, to egg them on to think and to figure out what their voice was and what they had to say. So this is what I do now, uh, for um, for uh, professional designers for mid-career people, uh, for a wide swath of, of you know, of, you know, corporate creative. And, um, and it’s funny because I just realized that through, um, through talking about this book, which I know that’s the whole reason that we talking is cause I have a new book out. In talking to this book I realize is a new way to say what I do is I am, I am like, (laughing)

[04:39] I can’t wait to hear whatever you’re going to say if it made you laugh.

[04:43] I am, I am like Moses to frustrated graphic designers

[04:49] You’re leading us out of the wilderness

[04:52] Frustrated creative people. They come to me and I, I pointed the way and I, uh, like I said, I, I like to be of service and um, I believe that um, this book and what I have to teach and the things I have to say, um, affect people’s lives. And like I said, I had a very nice career and I know that it is, it is particularly difficult to grow up in this world and be creative. It’s very hard to do that because there are so many pulls on that creativity and there are so many pulls for you not to be creative and not to be authentic and not to be vulnerable and not to be yourself. And that is a sin.

[05:34] So I guess, I guess I’m going to jump ahead a little bit. I have a question. I was sent the chapter from your book, which is thank you for sending that to us. I’m so excited to read it. Um, I want to know since your early twenties, you said in your 20s you were really excited to, um, like just to be famous. You’re doing this work in your, you want recognition for this stuff that you’re doing. How has your motivation changed since you were in your 20s to now?

[06:03] Um, you know, I think I just kind of got what his voice, I didn’t know the best way to say this. I didn’t know if I just kind of got bored of being on the losing end of compromise. I think a lot of, I think to be as successful commercial, financially successful commercial designer, uh, I think you need, the best thing you need to do is, um, um, um, ah, shut up and not have an opinion. And all of my work has an opinion. All of my work has some thing to say. Um, and I’m not going to, I’m not going to refrain from putting that in the work, but I work with very smart people who, who know that I have their financial, um, success in my mind. It’s in my care, but I also know what their audience wants. And I also know how to get, you know, I, I further than their initial aims with a, with a commercial project. I see, okay, I see what you want to do here. But you know what people really want, they’d be really wants some level of authenticity. Some people really want you to have an opinion. Um, so for me, I, I’ve, I’ve always known that I was a race horse and for most of my career I was pulling the cart.

[07:24] That’s a, that’s a good analogy. Yeah. So, um, you talk a lot about, you know, putting your weirdness and your your own opinions and yourself into your work. I’ve always kind of, I’ve always been and always felt like the weird one in my, you know, and my family and my friends circles and all the things and I’ve, I’ve always been a little bit

[07:41] Yeah but when you, when you say that, Brandi, when you say that Brandi, you, that’s not a compliment that you’re giving yourself either as it,

[07:46] well

[07:47] not when you say it like that.

[07:48] Not when I say it like that, um, but that’s how I’ve all I was, I had to kind of talk myself into over the years making my own self think that that’s a good thing. Like call me weird because that’s okay. And I’m okay with that and I have come, I actually did become okay with that even in my high school years. Like, okay, I’m the one that has, you know, rainbow pigtails or d does all the like weird stuff and

[08:12] You’re the one wearing the wig.

[08:14] All the wigs and all the weird things that I did. Um, and I embraced that as a person, but then I went into design school. And as much as I still, uh, you know, attribute a lot of what I know to design school, I never heard or even thought about how to put my weirdness into my work until I heard you. And so I have been practicing that and honestly, um, through your retreat and stuff, kind of making me very uncomfortable and doing things that I wasn’t necessarily aware needed to be done. I’m trying to put more of me into my work, but how, like what’s your biggest advice to creatives out there that have this inherent weirdness and are okay with it but don’t know how to put it into their work? Like don’t know what steps to take to be like, okay, I’m weird, but how do I make my work be a reflection of me and still be good?

[09:11] That’s a really personal question and I think that, um, I would have to deal with that particularly like one on one, like once they’re working is, and how to, how to, how to, um, to me how to make their work pregnant with their, their weirdness. Um, but one thing that I would say is that, um, and I have to make everybody aware of this, that if you don’t understand like you did Brandi, if you don’t understand that you’re weird and that is, uh, that is not a, it’s not a flaw. It is a unique and powerful part of you is where it’s where your perspective and your attitude and your opinion come from. And the biggest thing is if you don’t practice it, practice putting it into work, the problem is that you will never know what you’re capable of. You will never know what your voice and your opinion do. And that’s committing. You know, that’s the worst sin is because you’ll never know the power of your own voice. So you will not only will you not know the power of your own voice, but you will be susceptible to the power of everybody else’s voice. Eh, you know, you’re going to be, you’re going to be a leaf in the wind. You’re going to get the, the phone rings, Eagle Blub, Blub, blub, blub over here, and the phone rings, you go blub, blub, blub, blub, blub over here and you, and you know, you’re not in charge of you. And that’s that. That’s a shame.

[10:37] So the retreat that Brandi’s talking about was about two years ago in April. Um, and I did not go to this retreat as, you know, I wasn’t there, but Brandi was, and I have learned a few things from her. So basically from you. Um, and one thing that I was really interested in is that like my handwriting, I don’t like my handwriting, but she’s, she’s made it a point to start using her handwriting and things because it is her handwriting and no one else can have it. And so I’ve thought about that for myself and like, you know what, I have my own handwriting and that is so cool that no one else can have that. And so one, I just wanted to say thank you for that, but two, can you kind of speak to that and how you kind of got there with anything? It doesn’t have to be handwriting, but anything that is, um, I dunno, just yours.

[11:33] You know, it’s a funny thing, Michelle. I hate my handwriting and I know that people hire me for that and they want that. And I’m like, oh, really?

[11:42] Again? It’s just my handwriting.

[11:44] But it’s just me and I think, I don’t, I think it’s just like, it’s any aspect of, of not just the handwriting, but it’s like any aspect of what you do, how you, how you make shapes or how you, um, you, the, the, the odd value of your voice. You know, like, like Billie holiday, the great Billy holiday, terrible singing voice, right? Like, oh my God. Right. Not, not what you expect, but, um, the point is that we shouldn’t judge. The point is we shouldn’t judge our handwriting. Just do it. We shouldn’t judge our work. We shouldn’t judge ourselves because we’re terrible judges of our own. We can judge other people all day. That’s easy, you know? But we shouldn’t judge ourselves because what we do is reasonably restrict ourselves. We stop ourselves from, from, from, from doing these things are making these marks. Oh, should I do that? Really, you know, I’ll be an interview situation. They’re all beyond on stage and there’s a little boy in the back of my head going, are you going to say that out loud? Really?You bet your ass. I am.

[12:59] You’re fighting that fear.

[13:00] That’s it. And that’s it. And it’s, it’s, you know, that’s the problem with when we, when we look at, let’s say we’ll use the handwriting thing again, is we look at our handwriting and we judge it instead of just moving forward bravely. You know, people are like, well, I don’t really like my work. And I’m like, I don’t give a fuck what you think about your work. What matters is how you get it out the door. What matters is that you don’t judge it and you just keep on making it. If you make bad work, fine, keep making bad work until it’s good work, don’t judge it.

[13:29] Yeah, that’s definitely something that’s hard for me. I am a, I have elements of perfectionism. Um, you know, I think a lot of creatives do. Um, and I don’t think that I, I kind of play enough, um, and just kind of let things be and that’s, that’s something that I, I also think that, that you taught me through your thing. Like you said, just do it. Just make a mark with something that sticks in my head all the time. I just hear your voice saying, just make a mark.

[13:54] Just play. Yeah. Just, I don’t think that’s the reasons why when you go out into the store or the supermarket or go through a magazine, that’s why the reason why most of that stuff is just doldrums is because not enough designers, one or creative people or one play or two enjoy their work. They don’t enjoy the process, enjoy the process. They’re just making what the one they’ve been told or what they think it’s supposed to look like, which is, which is completely uninteresting.

[14:21] So speaking of process and making something that you like, how have, like how did you develop your personal style that you have now and is it continually progressing?

[14:35] I don’t know how I developed it. I just, uh, you know, I just made until I just kept making and kept, you know, I’m not, you really should learn the computer better. And I’m like, we have what this is. So I’m like, cause that’s a boring, I’m not patient. Right. And, and with a pen and scissors I can make, I, I’m super fast and I like that. I’m like there, it’s done. Do I like it? Maybe. I Dunno. Um, and um, what was the second part of the question?

[15:05] Is it progressing? Like do you keep moving forward with it?

[15:08] God, I hope so. I figured, Hey, I’m working on a project right now that I hope is, is kind of a next level thing for me. I’m kind of excited about. I’m talking about it too much. So there’s going to be way too much pressure. Um, but I, I, I hope so because, you know, you know, changes what it’s all about. Um, you know, I know that a lot of people kind of, you get, you get pigeonholed and clients commercially if you do something good, that’s kind of dangerous because people want that again and again and again and again.

[15:40] And it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

[15:42] Yeah. People want, if you make a little, little squiggly drawings of people, people want that squiggly drawing is that people, they don’t want to see that you can paint or you can take pictures or you can, you know, so that’s, that’s a little bit dangerous.

[15:53] So would you say that that’s what challenges you the most, the fact that one, you’re talking about this project that you think is going to be next level and then all of these people want these amazing things from you because you’ve put out amazing before.

[16:05] Well, yeah. You know, I, I hope people want, I think they do. I can’t really worry about that too much. I just have to, I just have to keep making and, and, and if you notice, I mean, if anybody notices what I do, I just keep making and I keep putting it out into the world and saying, “Hey, look at this, look at this”, you know, um, um, I don’t judge whether it’s good or not, but, you know, I’m hoping someone will look at it and go, hey, you know what, that would be great for blahbidy Blah, blah, blah. And they make that decision. Yeah. And then they get, and then they get some, some, some, uh, younger, uh, cheaper talent.

[16:47] Of course, there’s always someone cheaper, cheaper. Um, so I’ve heard you say before that like creatives are guides. Um, I think I kind of understand what that means, but I would like for you to maybe expand on that a little bit more. Like we should be the ones guiding people. What does that look like to you?

[17:09] Oh, you know, the, the, the, the life that we’re living today, the internet and, um, the i-watch and, uh, I mean I could go on, a lot of this stuff was prognosticated by science fiction writers or illustrators or writer or a painters from, you know, from your cartoons, you know, from years ago. And we just kind of, um, as kids we saw those things. We thought, oh my God. And we never let go of it because we’re, we were creative and then we made that into our, into our reality it, oh, but all the way, all the way to the, to the point where we’re, where we, you know, almost to the point where we are actually because of this asshole president. We’re actually living in 1984 right now, George Orwell’s 1984.

[18:08] One of my favorite books of all time.

[18:09] Hilarious. Hilarious. Um, I just think that, um, we get relegated to the kind of, um, the sidelines at where we are the um, the weird help. And when we stopped accepting that role and we choose to be in power, um, the world is, that will be a better place, um, because it’s run by, you know, clear thinking, um, futurists and not, not, um, when, not when our role is just to, once the job is done, they call us in to make it pink. Do you know what I mean? Right there. There’s a company that I, that I, um, that I love and I use and I work with and they’re in the motorcycle industry and everybody knows them because the guy who, who, who owns the company, his name is Troy Lee, it’s called Troy Lee designs. Everybody knows that it is a creative driven company. That’s the one,

[19:13] That’s the one that made your helmet, right?

[19:13] Yeah, that’s why, that’s, that’s, that’s well in all the gear I wear, um, uh, you know, and that’s why people want to work with them.

[19:24] So what part does the, um, what part does the objective and subjective play in, in like approaching something that you designed? Because I know, I know that there are the goals, you know, there are the people on the other end, there are the clients, there are the things you’re actually trying to make that are absolutes. And then there is, you know, you and what you want to say and how you want to say it. How do you kind of bring those two together and like have a happy place.

[19:56] This is, this is, this is, this is right out of the book. This is the furthering of the idea that we were just talking about, about creators being in charge and why am in that is, um, and I mean, I mean we need, we need creative leaders like create a creative president.

[20:13] I agree.

[20:14] You know, we haven’t, we have, we haven’t had creative leadership and years Obama was a creative president, but he couldn’t get anything done because of the, you know, his opposition party. But anyway, anyway, um, in any job, any commercial job, you know, from, from fixing my car all the way through to, uh, to our work, to actual, you know, to, to ink on ink, on paper. Um, there are two parts of it. There’s the objective and the subjective, right,

[20:46] Right.

[20:46] And the object his to is to satisfy the commercial goal to, to, to, um, um, for a chef it’s like I ordered the, the, you know, the, um, the Reuben Sandwich, it should be hot and good.

[21:00] Yeah.

[21:02] That’s the, that’s the objective. But then there’s, then there’s the subjective. And in the same example, a chef can not only give you, satisfy the object of, of giving you hot and good, but through creativity can create an experience, can create memories, can, can um, create return customers. You know, the same thing with the guy who fixes my car. He can be kind and gentle and honest and teach me in the process besides just fixing it and going, there was a bill. Good luck.

[21:40] Good impression. That’s every auto guy i know.

[21:41] Okay. Yeah. And, and, and you know, a bus driver can get you from point, point, point, point, point, point. Or they can do that and change someone’s day by smiling, by saying hello, by greeting. That’s, and that is when the subject of is how you do it, how you satisfy that commercial objective. Hey, you do it with your, with your sense of humor, with your sense of empathy, empathy and compassion, that your sense of sexuality, your sense of the macabe or you know, so they’re, those, those two parts both need to be, you know, satisfied and most people just leave off the subjective, they leave off the how you do it, which is unfortunate.

[22:28] And do you think that goes back beat to them not enjoying the process?

[22:32] I think it goes back to them not enjoying the process. And Brandi, I think it was at Brandi

[22:35] Michelle

[22:35] And Michelle,

[22:36] Michelle, we sound a lot of like, it’s okay,

[22:39] you know what it goes, it goes further back. He goes all the way back to the fact, to the point where nobody’s ever been asked. No one has ever in school, they don’t talk to you about this in art school and design school. They don’t talk to you about this. There’s no class about it putting humor into your work or putting sexuality

[22:57] or even your opinion at all

[22:59] or your, you just kind of, Eh, you just kind of start doing it and hope no one critiques the hell out of it. So it embarasses you and shames you and you’d never do it again.

[23:09] Ooh, where does critique come in? When you’re working on a team of creatives or when you’re leading a team of creatives because nobody wants to hear it, but it’s got to happen sometime.

[23:20] What?

[23:21] Critique. So where does that come in?

[23:23] Yeah, it’s useful. It’s thoroughly useful and it comes in at all points. You know, I’m, I’m, uh, I am at a point with a job where I’m showing some, like very, not sketches, but showing my play and I’m curious of the critique of it. Uh, I never anything without showing it, at least to my wife. Um, and if I have other people in the studio, I’m like, what do I do? You know what? It can do this. Um, I invite it and yes, it is inevitable. And Michelle, because you know, you’re damned if you do. You’re damned if you don’t. Right. All right. Um, and the thing is, is the thing is, you know, you’re, you, you kind of need your audience to critique your work because they help shepherd you into what they’re looking for or what, you know, what works for you. You know, you, um, the, a lot of times it’s, there’s, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a tricky little tipping point here where your audience is going to shepherd you into what they like and what they don’t like. Um, um, the problem is if you listen to them too much, you’re going to be doing things to make them happy first. You know, what you do is you make things for you, you make work to make you happy first and then, um, um, and then see how that, how that reflects off them. So many people don’t think about their audience. They don’t what they think about their audiences that I need everybody and you don’t, you don’t need everybody. You need your audience. You are own weirdness is going to bring in your own audience and further, um, you know, I got, I got, I was in a interview, I think an interview somebody asked, um, I was talking about this idea of making my ma, I ma, I work to make myself happy. I sit in the studio and I may stop and I made myself laugh. I’m like, Oh shit. And that’s it. That was pretty good. Someone’s, someone’s gonna like that. And somebody said, isn’t that arrogant? And I’m like, yes.

[25:32] The creative ego is a thing.

[25:35] Not the creative ego. No, no, it’s not. It’s not. You want, how do I put this? You want an arrogant lover. You want someone who’s going to make themselves happy in this process. Right? You want somebody fully charged and fully involved in that, that act, you know,

[26:02] Would you say it’s more so confidence?

[26:04] Okay. Oh, his Dev, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely self confidence. It, but it’s all, it’s an, it’s an it’s and yes. It’s knowing what you, knowing what you want, knowing what you like and then sharing it with other people. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean in a relationship situation. That’s awesome.

[26:22] So I think with the, the difference between how your arrogant and other people can be arrogant is that you’re willing to share. While a lot of people are arrogant, don’t think they need to.

[26:33] Well, I think that, I think the word arrogant has it. Yes.

[26:36] It’s different.

[26:37] Selfish.

[26:38] Selfish.

[26:39] Okay. Selfish. And I think my arrogance, the way I don’t like word arrogant to begin with, but I think mine has a more of a selfless,

[26:46] selfless arrogance

[26:49] Where I’m so confident, you know, and I just wanna I just want play. Um, and I want other people to enjoy the process.

[26:56] So going back to the critique, the criticism, um, at what point do you throw it out the door?

[27:06] Ah, whenever you want. Uh, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s funny, I was, I was, uh, a client sent me a, a, a logo to, to for there to put on their project, you know, like the, at the end of the thing. And um, and I wrote them back and I said, that is a damn ugly logo.

[27:25] It was, what did you want them to do with that? With that feedback? What were you expecting?

[27:31] Well I did, I said, I said, listen, here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to use this part and then I’m going to reset all the time. Cause it was just looked like something from the same haven’t

[27:41] because it probably was.

[27:43] I don’t know if that answers your question or not.

[27:45] That’s good. That’s good.

[27:46] You know when, the criticism thing is that it’s, it’s, it’s a funny, we need it and you know, too much freedom is not always a good thing.

[27:57] Hmm. It’s a little overwhelming sometimes.

[27:59] Well then you, then you don’t know, then you, then you yourself never know what’s, what, what really our people are responding to and what they don’t respond to.

[28:10] You mentioned the word play and I know that that’s a big part of your work. Where does research come in to this process of you just kind of going with what you feel like and what’s making you happy and all of that. Like is there a research process for you?

[28:25] Zero

[28:26] Zero research?

[28:28] And so Brandi, just so you know, is really big on research. Why do you not?

[28:34] Why, why, why you’re not trusting yourself. I think for me it’s more I’m contacting, you’re stopped but you’re stopping yourself from bringing anything new to the table.

[28:45] Okay.

[28:45] It’s like he’s like, okay, okay, you tomorrow night I got to do three minutes of standup. I better go look and see what other jokes other people are telling.

[28:54] Oh. And, and the way I research is not necessarily looking at other people’s design work. It’s more, um, for example, if I’m, if I’m wanting to do sort of a a look that’s Victorian and

[29:05] I understand what you’re doing is you’re going to, that research is going make you end. It’s going to end up making your work look like everything else because everything else has done the same research. You’re going to have that period type face and those colors that things on, on, on, on, on, uh, and you’re not bringing anything of yourself to it. You know, there’s this thing in Austin right now where they’re doing, it’s like, you know, every Wednesday night we’re bringing in a design and they’re showing us this sketches in the process that they’re, that they go through for, you know, design for this beer company are just not designed for this, uh, this, uh, this book project that they did or something. And I wrote to these people and I’m like, Hey, I wanna I wanna come on, I want to do that because I’m going to get there and show them I don’t do any of these things. Your sketch process is not, no, I’m not scared. I sketch and I, but, but I make one thing for the client. I never show five different covers are five different this or multiple because, because one, I’m getting paid once and I can do this all day. I can come up with good shit all day. But what you’re paying me for is to make a decision so you don’t have to, right.

[30:13] So what would you say to the people who do research? Like how would you encourage them to get out of their comfort zone? Like, maybe they’re not comfortable, not researching at all. What would you say?

[30:22] I would, I would, I would tell them to whatever their process is is great, (laughing) be happy, that’s great, that’s great that’s great.

[30:32] That’s where the no judgment part comes in.

[30:34] I like it. Keep it up. Super.

[30:36] So you said that you wrote your book for you, um, which parts were the hardest to get through even though you were writing on, for yourself? Like what were like the really sticky points?

[30:48] You know, it’s talking about judgment and talk about critics and talking about, uh, the, the voice in your head. You know, my process was I would get up very early in the morning and I’d go out on the dark porch with a quilt over my lap and my new laptop in the dark at four 30 in the morning. And then I have a little coffee, make a little camping coffee makers and wake anybody up in the house. And um, uh, and then I would sit there and try to write for an hour or whatever. I could stand two hours. And the hardest part was one, they say they say writing is hard. Writing is not hard is the sitting or sitting and doing nothing, staying there and doing it. But the hardest part was was hearing those critics come up and go, oh you wait, you’re going to talk about that. Or, or having some, putting some professional opinion in it and having these designers that I know, you know, hearing their voices like, oh well James, you, well, you know, you know

[31:50] James,

[31:50] He’s just, you know, yeah. The, the, all of, that’s why I say I wrote it for me because I had, these are things that I, you know, that I need to remind myself all the time in order in order that I can move forward freely and creatively without the opinions. Other, other opinions, you know, around my, around my neck, like a yoke.

[32:16] So tell us about your book. You know, that it has not released yet. Tell us a little bit about it. You wrote it for you.

[32:24] (laughing) Uh, yeah, I wrote it for me. And it is a, uh, you know, people, people say it’s a, you know, a tool kit for the Creative. I’m like, it’s like, uh, you know, um, um, power tools. It’s, it, I had a bunch of, uh, it’s “Dangerous Ideas on the Business of Life”. Well, the subtitle is dangerous ideas on the business of life. The title is “Feck Perfuction”, but, and the reason they are dangerous ideas is because they’re dangerous to your perception of yourself they’re dangerous to your ego, they’re dangerous to your status quo. They’re dangerous to your security and comfort financially. Um, they’re dangerous to what you think of as creative. Like, hey, I’m a creative guy. Well, no, you’re not. But yeah. Um, and I think that like you guys said it early, like I’ve gotten to the point in my career, where I, where I want to serve others. I want to help people. And I think that this book is, um, like I said, it’s everything that I need to kind of keep moving forward. And I think there are things in there that can help people tremendously. Even the simplest things that have no explanation. Like there’s one spread in there that just says complaining is not conversation. Because I think, I think, I think what happens on a daily basis is we, we, our lives kind of default into this lazy habit. And one of the lazy habits is that we complain constantly. Meaning meaning meaning we’re not full of gratitude. We’re not, we’re not thankful for what we have. We just complain. And that’s, you know, and I, I, I figured that out when I was teaching because the students would come into class the first thing in the morning and they would, you know, nine o’clock in the morning and they’re talking about how tired they are or how long ago were they are or whatever. And I’m like, okay, so that means you are not in charge of your life.

[34:22] That’s the challenge.

[34:23] They’re not in charge and they’re not prioritizing. There it is.

[34:26] Uh, and, and, and they’re going to live the rest of their lives like that

[34:30] unless someone tells them otherwise, unless someone open shines the light on their problem, maybe. Yes, I guess

[34:38] So, there’s a lot of the, the arc of the book takes you from the first chapter all the way through. The last and it is the, basically the, the journey of the hero that Joseph Campbell kind of journey of the hero. And it starts with you, um, learning to understand your voice and your opinion and why you have it and how to get it out the door and why it’s a value. And then once you understand that you have a voice comes the second chapter of fear because you’re now you’re like, oh shit, now I have something to say

[35:06] and I have to do something with it.

[35:09] And you live in fear that someone else may not like it and they will not like it.

[35:15] Creatives have an obligation because we, we have these really unique opinions that we are, that we have an obligation to find a way to share them with the world at large.

[35:26] Um, you know, if you care about your creativity, uh, yes. If you want to complain, you know, like I don’t get paid enough. I my doesn’t let me be creative and not then no. Then you can just wallow in pity. Um, um, but yes, you there, there’s a whole thing in there in, in the habits section about as high, I think I talked about killing, you’re killing your phone because your, you know, your phone like, is distraction and what you’re doing is you’re not giving your creativity the respect it deserves because you’re spending so much time on your phone or your working and your phone is just going because I have a friend, I have a dear friend, I won’t tell you his name. I have a dear friend who has all of his, um, what are they? Uh, when you have an APP and you get a notification and it buzzes, you know? Yeah, he’s got all of those turned on. I’m like,

[36:20] Ooh, screw that.

[36:26] A total lack of respect for your time. It’s just like, oh look at all the time. It’s like, wait, how do you get, how did you get anything done at all? How are you here? Well, how are you here? How are you in yourself? You’re constantly being pulled out and you know, or like you see two young beautiful lovers at a restaurant and they both have their phones out. Like, what are you waiting for another date to breakout somewhere else. Kidding me.

[36:50] Yeah. You said in your book, motivation is your friend and it’s motivation is where you go. Like you need to use that motivation to keep going and the momentum, momentum. Sorry. Um, and I so feel that like even this morning I filled the sink up with hot water and I was going to do those dishes and they sat down and I was like, crap, I am making a mistake right now. And I had to stand up and go do those dishes right away because it was the moment and I just had to do it.

[37:15] Well, you know, do the hard stuff first to Michelle, just get it, get it done, then you can go, my day is open

[37:22] and it’s so much easier to do the easy stuff first because they’re easy to check off the list. So yeah, that’s, you know, flipping it on its head and like, okay, do the hard thing first. Yeah. I don’t know how your friend has all those notifications on. I can’t live that life

[37:35] and I, and I love to I love the easy stuff. You know, I have a list that I live off who every day and like I would put, I would put shit, shower, shave, brush my teeth on it. Just like

[37:44] I’m raising my hand right now. I literally do that every day.

[37:47] It makes me very happy.

[37:47] Yes. I put my shoes on this morning, So we’re nearing the end of our time. But we have, um, we have a list of questions we ask every guest on our show. Go ahead, Michelle. You can start asking,

[38:00] First, what are you listening to? Reading? What are, what are you, what are you into right now?

[38:08] I don’t really pay attention to music or TV anymore. My wife’s soundtrack is amazing and I, I, it floats me. Um, you know, when I’m in the studio, when I’m in a good, good mode, it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, Tom Petty and Springsteen and, you know,

[38:30] Good Stuff

[38:31] Kind of, well, it’s, you know, it’s the stuff I grew up with, so it’s easy. Um, yeah. So I don’t, I don’t really have a good answer for that, unfortunately.

[38:39] You’re in your head and that’s good. That’s good enough for right now.

[38:42] Right now I’m working on this, this book and, you know, and I’ve got, you know, two kids in a, in a house to take care of. So I’m, I’ve got a lot on the plate.

[38:53] Describe yourself in three words.

[39:01] Uhhhh, arrogant?

[39:01] While we’re at it.

[39:02] Oh, I dunno. What would three words, um, um,

[39:07] Gut reaction.

[39:08] Three words, ballsy, ballsy, un, charming

[39:16] Well that mustache.

[39:16] And uh, well that’s the thing, I dunno, uh wildly creative,

[39:24] That’s four words, but we’ll give it to you because it’s you.

[39:27] Just, just, just, how about just wildly,

[39:30] wildly,

[39:30] wildly you. I like it.

[39:33] Um, what’s the first thing you do in the morning?

[39:35] Drink a big, huge glass of water.

[39:38] What do you geek out about? I love, um, I love, uh, uh, tools and I love, um, uh, things with rubber tires. I love, you know, I would have, I would have 15 motorcycles if I could. Um, and I’d have all the tools that it takes to, to, to fix him and break him.

[39:56] What did your recent incident on your, your bike do to your love of rubber wheels vehicles?

[40:04] Uh, yes. It definitely challenged as challenges that because it’s so funny because, so I had this accident riding motocross on my property here and I’m broke, you know, kind of half of my body. And, um, I like, we were watching some action movie recently and I, it was, it was hard to watch because these guys were taking such body shots and getting thrown against the wall and down on the floor. And I realized, Oh my God, that would have hurt so much, but

[40:37] They wouldn’t get up!

[40:38] It’s like, it’s like, no, this is, you just took a two by four to the chest. That’s, no, that’s impossible. Um, Eh, you know what, he, you know the what that, what that accident has done for me. It’s, it’s, it’s made, it’s given me the great opportunity to make this, this, this, this pain. I call it, I am now, it’s now, it’s now my “cruising pain”. I can basically get through the day, but I’m in pain and what it’s done for me is it’s allowed me to, it’s been an amazing teacher. And if I don’t learn from this, and if I don’t share, uh, this, then the accident was just a stupid thing and the pain is just pain. So I try to, I try to, I tried to learn from learn from everything.

[41:23] What would your mom say that you do?

[41:25] Yeah, I think she would say that I draw pictures. Yeah cause I don’t think, you know, it’s funny, it’s always, it’s always been funny with my mom because even when I, when I, I was in my middle 20, no, late 20’s, when I started actually traveling the world and showing work. I got very lucky, very early on and I was in my hometown. I got, I, I made it happen that the state university in my home town asked me to come and speak. And I came and I, you know, I showed my work and I talked about it. And then after my mom said, “don’t you do anything nice?”

[42:04] And that’s like mom looking you up and down, like you’re going to wear that. That’s like what that is.

[42:10] Yeah. Well, and it’s funny because I sent my mom a copy of the book and I was kind of nervous about it because I talked very honestly about my childhood and you know, my, the, the role of creativity in my childhood. And um, my mom wrote me and said, um, she said, I wish I had read this when I was much younger. It’s such good advice.

[42:32] Wow. Incredible affirmation.

[42:34] That’s like the best as Nick Cage would say, “That’s high praise”.

[42:42] Yeah, it’s the best.

[42:44] So, um, last question, and it’s the biggie and I’m sure you have a very deep answer for it and I hope you do. How do you want to be remembered?

[42:55] Ha hahaha hahaha hahaha. I do have a deep, deep answer. I don’t fucking care. I don’t. I don’t go there. I don’t think about that. It doesn’t interest me.

[43:05] You’re just creating now.

[43:09] Because that’s, yeah, that’s a future thing. And I don’t, I don’t live there. I really tried to make it happen. Uh, you know, uh, you know, like right now because of this, because of, because of this, I’m not moving as fast and I’m not doing, you know, I’m not like energized and it’s, you know, it’s hard to get excited about the day and by, you know, three, four o’clock, everything starts getting fucking hurts, and

[43:34] I you don’t wanna move.

[43:36] And, um, it’s, it’s important for me to always remember that my, the, the, the draw or the pull on my time right now, it was massive. And somehow everything will get done. Everybody will be happy and I don’t have to worry about it. So I, I, that’s what I, that’s where I want to live. I don’t want to live in the, you know, where, what’s, what are people gonna think about me because, uh, I don’t care. I don’t care what people think about me right now.

[44:12] Hmm. That’s amazing. And it’s not an easy place to get to as a creative because it’s such a vulnerable place.

[44:19] It’s super hard to be and it’s, and it’s something that I have to kind of just like courage. I have to summon it. I have to summon that notion, you know, I’m just, I don’t, I don’t live there all the time. I have to summon it. So when someone writes me and I get criticism or something, I’m just like, that’s, not about me. Oh, let’s walk away h appy.

[44:44] Well, we are so, so thankful. We’ve been trying to make this interview happen for probably at least a year, I think.

[44:50] Yes. Yes.

[44:51] And it’s a perfect time that it happened because you have, your book is about to come out. Um, when does it release?

[44:58] March five. March five. That’s very soon it’s very soon.

[45:03] Where will it be available?

[45:05] Everywhere.

[45:06] Everywhere you can buy a book,

[45:08] You know where people should go. Yeah. Anywhere that you can buy books, but where they should go is to feckperfuction.com you can go to feckperfuction.com right now and preorder it. And then when you preorder what we have, some, um, some free bonuses that we, that we give you. Did you get that Brandi?

[45:24] I did, I did. I got all those things and I’m waiting to have some good ink so I can print that awesome little mini poster out for my wall. But you can’t see in here, right behind me. I have my, my “excellence flag that I, that I did. Okay.

[45:38] Oh yeah yeah yeah. I love that.

[45:40] And it’s, it’s a huge motivation for me. It takes me back and you have been such a pleasure to have here and um, I hope that we get to talk again. I have one small, funny anecdote to tell you before we leave. Um, if you recall, I was there making this thing to the last, like I had to leave a little early

[45:59] Yes

[45:59] and I was not too thrilled about that. However, I ended up, because I was so determined to at least do something on that thing. Michelle and I missed our flight home.

[46:09] Completely missed it. We drove 13 hours that night.

[46:12] So we had to rent a car and drive, drive home.

[46:16] Oh!

[46:16] But I feel, I feel personally like it was worth it. Michelle may,

[46:20] I hate road trips. I hate road trips. I don’t enjoy that process. But it was so much fun.

[46:28] So all that to say what you did impacted me and I hope that, I hope that this book really impacts people in the way that my time with you impacted my creativity and my journey.

[46:38] Thank you. Thank you very much. And now and now you have that great story. See, I know it’s all perspective.

[46:45] and I had 13 hours to really internalize all the things that I learned, so

[46:51] It was a gift, it was it an odd gift.

[46:54] Yeah. And I hope that, you know, I would love to hang out with you again if, if I get out to that area and we can chat more about, uh, things that I need to work on and maybe I can challenge you somewhere.

[47:06] Come out. Come out to the porch. You’re always welcome on the porch Brandi.

[47:10] Awesome.

[47:10] Last thing, where can people find you?

[47:13] Uh, JamesVictore.com. Pretty simple. Um, uh, JamesVictore.com, and we have a brand new website that is going to come out I think within a a week.

[47:24] Awesome. Very cool.

[47:26] That’s really exciting. Well, thank you again so much.

[47:29] Excellent, thank you guys.

[47:29] Have a wonderful rest of your day.

[47:32] Thank you. It’s been a real pleasure speaking with you.

[47:34] I’ll talk to you soon. Thanks.

[47:35] Okay.

[47:36] Bye, Bye.

[47:37] So that was Sir James Victore, um, talking to us live from his ranch in Georgetown, Texas.

[47:45] We hope you enjoyed. Yeah, we’ve learned a lot. We a have to debrief because he’s, he’s such a cool guy with such great insight and challenging our own thoughts and perceptions on how we should do things. So, yeah, enjoy. Um, we want feedback as always. So let us know what you thought, um, what you’ve learned, what you’ve taken away and of course, share.

[48:06] Yeah. And check out his book. Um, it’s going to be out in a few days, which is why we wanted to give you this bonus episodes, to give him some love and hopefully you can check out all the stuff that he does and check out his videos on youtube and all the things. So, um, remember to look at us on patrion.com/Design Speaks. Every dollar counts, every little thing that you have. We also really value not only your dollars, but your insight. So hit us up,

[48:34] Get it, give it to us, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter at BrandiSea.com and on Instagram at Design Speaks Podcast, thank you to Colin for allowing us to use his song shatter in the night as our intro and outro to this podcast.

[48:45] [Vesperteen “Shatter in the Night” Song Plays]