This week Brandi and Michelle are taking a leaf out of Sean Wes’s book and recovering the topic of, how to hear your own voice when you are working for someone else. Brandi and Michelle encourage fellow creatives that it’s okay for you to have your own voice. It is your work and it’s okay to be in it.

Michelle’s week:

Michelle has had an interesting week thus far. She got to see Death Cab for Cutie live which made Brandi jealous. And Michelle is working hard at work on Easter stuff. Her daughter is on a soccer team so weekly they are at games. And she had a wild experience with her daughter the day of this recording because she and her husband were having coffee with some friends. Her daughter disappears for a minute, comes back, and when they asked where she went her response was, “I bought a burrito.” And sure enough, she had taken Kelly’s (Michelle’s husband) debit card, went to the register and bought a burrito!

Brandi’s week:

Brandi got a new pin this week from Two Girls Co. and it says “girls who design” and it is her new favorite pin. Brandi loves being a representative of girls being in a different sphere so that was really exciting to find. She’s also working on the higher ed review portfolio for AIGA. This will be her last one as education director as she is transitioning into president very soon! And she was able to get in a good conversation with Hugh Weber this week! She has also been working with her daughter Jasmine because she is in a craft fair on Mother’s Day. Jasmine has been making jewelry like crazy lately so this is an opportunity to sell and show off what she’s been making. And something that has been inspiring Brandi this week is that she needs to just do things. She decided to do the 100 days challenge and she is doing something creative every day, and in order to do something creative every day, she’s having to go back through inspiration folders on her phone to see what has inspired her in the past but hasn’t used or posted yet.   

Things to remember:

• Being creative is a vulnerable thing to do.
• Your voice matter. You are in your designs even if they are for someone else. You can’t take you out of your work.
• A style is different from a voice. A voice is what you have to say and a style is how you say it.
• You are hired for you. Your style and your voice are what make you different from all other designers
• Find your voice by making things. It will take time to find it, but by making things you find your voice; you find what makes you special
• In finding your voice, the things that you find yourself attracted to are probably part of your voice. And look for consistencies in what you do in your personal work and in the work you do for clients

Songs:

Michelle’s song: What Sarah Said by Death Cab for Cutie

Brandi’s song: If You Want Love by NF

This Quarter’s Book:

We are reading and reviewing books on the podcast every quarter!

If you would like to read along, THIS QUARTER, we’ve been reading, The Secret Lives of Color by Kassia St. Clair.

Want to support us?

Go to Patreon and help support our podcast!

Find us on all forms of social media via @BrandiSea on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and you can email us any burning questions you want Brandi to answer on an episode at brandi@brandisea.com.

THANK YOU to the ultra-talented  Vesperteen (Colin Rigsby) for letting us use his (“Shatter in The Night”) track in every episode of Design Speaks.

TRANSCRIPTION

Brandi Sea: 00:00 45 minutes

Michelle: 00:00 What should we call this episode? Episode 96 this is what we should call this episode

Brandi Sea: 00:04 Listen to it.

Speaker 2: 00:06 Welcome to Design Speaks. This lovely podcast is brought to you by a graphic design geek and a regular human being. AKA a non-designer. We’re here to chat about music, pop culture, cool places. I basically, whatever we feel is relevant.

Brandi Sea: 00:22 Hey guys, I’m Brandi Sea

Michelle: 00:23 And I’m Michelle

Brandi Sea: 00:24 And you’re listening to episode 96 of Design Speak.

Michelle: 00:27 Welcome to it. On this episode, we will be talking about how to keep your voice while also working for someone else. I, what am I saying?

Brandi Sea: 00:37 This is take two and you still can’t, it’s like take four.

Michelle: 00:39 It’s like at this point, uh, beep. On this episode, we’re going to be talking about how to dang it. I still don’t know. I know what we’re talking about, but how do I talk about what we’re talking about?

Brandi Sea: 00:50 We’re gonna talk about not losing your own voice when you’re designing for someone else.

Michelle: 00:54 That’s exactly what it is. Now you fit that on the graphic.

Brandi Sea: 00:58 I can’t, I don’t know. I don’t even know how to do it. I will. The worst part of my day when I’m posting these episodes is figuring out what to call the dang episode

Michelle: 01:08 And I’m all good luck.

Brandi Sea: 01:09 I’m like, oh wait, I stopped even texting you. I used to text Michelle like every episode, week and go, what do you think about this title? What do you think about this one? And not that she wasn’t helpful, but I was, I just

Michelle: 01:21 I can’t, yeah

Brandi Sea: 01:22 It wasn’t super helpful because she wasn’t sitting next to me and she doesn’t know like the space constraints I have on those little graphics and like, it was just too much. So like every week I sit there for 45 minutes

Michelle: 01:32 What should I call this episode? Episode 96 this is what we should call this episode

Brandi Sea: 01:36 Listen to it. So if you guys liked this show, love this show, want to support us, it would be incredible if you would go to our Patreon, it’s patreon.com/designspeaks and give us a buck.

Michelle: 01:50 You can give us $1, $30, uh, $2, whatever you want. There are levels of support that you can choose to do, like as incentive, but you don’t have to choose any of those. You can do whatever you want. It would just be so cool. We have a few people given right now. Thank you so much to our patreons. We really could not do this without you. Um

Brandi Sea: 02:09 I’m still torn on it. Are they are patreons or are they our patrons? I feel like there are patrons then.

Michelle: 02:14 I don’t know. I’m going to go with the website. How about you say patron and I’ll say patreons and we’ve got it covered.

Brandi Sea: 02:19 Okay, sure.

Michelle: 02:19 Okay, so thank you to our patreons because like you don’t, you don’t think about it, but there is a lot of stuff that goes into this each week, each month and it isn’t free

Brandi Sea: 02:30 Yeah, momentarily like besides just our time. So we’re just, we’re just really thankful for everyone who is able to jump on board. And if you’d like to do that again, it’s patrion.com/designspeaks.

Brandi Sea: 02:40 Uh, we decided that we’re going to just steal a page from Sean Wes’s book like we do from time to time and uh, do what he does and start to kind of like re-recover prod the not projects, topics re-cover topics, um, that we’ve talked about before, but maybe a long time ago.

Michelle: 03:02 Yeah. And so that’s what’s really cool about that idea is that when we covered these a long time ago, I was actually super duper 100% brand new to the design world. And since I’ve been in it for a second, I’m not like a genius or anything and I don’t know it all, but I, I know the language and I know a few more things that I feel like I could really, I could lend to a little bit more. So, and I’m excited to see what comes out of this conversation.

Brandi Sea: 03:26 And there’s still, there’s still valuable topics and

Michelle: 03:29 Oh for sure that need to be recovered.

Brandi Sea: 03:31 Yeah. And I think so the reason that Sean Wes does it, and I’m, I’m on board with this and I think I’ve talked about it before, um, the rule of seven is that you don’t remember anything until you’ve heard it seven times.

Michelle: 03:42 Oh that’s interesting.

Brandi Sea: 03:42 So, um, you know, by this time he’s been doing his podcast for, I don’t know how many years, but the goal is that you know, by the seventh time, if he was the only one ever that you listened to talk about this thing, by the seventh time you hear him talk about it, then he gets the credit for you learning that thing.

Michelle: 03:56 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 03:56 So I want the credit for you guys learning. So maybe this episode will be the seventh time period that you hear about your voice and stuff and I get the credit for you learning like, Oh man, I remember Brandi taught me that thing.

Michelle: 04:07 Yes, exactly.

Brandi Sea: 04:08 And I brought you value. And then my three is satisfied.

Michelle: 04:11 Yes. The three in you is satisfied. Enneagram.

Brandi Sea: 04:14 So anyway, tell me about your week.

Michelle: 04:16 Um, my week has been very interesting. I got to see a cool band, live Death Cab for Cutie, which I’ll get back to

Brandi Sea: 04:23 We talked about how jealous I was last time.

Michelle: 04:25 I know. And I’m sorry to say it was really good. It was a really good concert

Brandi Sea: 04:27 You’re not sorry, but I’m glad it was good for you because I would have been sad if it was disappointing.

Michelle: 04:31 They’ve been men, they’ve been a band for over 20 years. Can you believe that? They’ve been a band for over 20 years. So they are solid onstage.

Brandi Sea: 04:40 They haven’t gone stale.

Michelle: 04:42 They have not gone stale and

Brandi Sea: 04:44 Which is hard to do.

Michelle: 04:45 They, I appreciated their setlist so much because they recognize that yeah, they’re coming out with new music, but people really want to hear their old stuff too.

Brandi Sea: 04:55 Yeah

Michelle: 04:55 And they had a really diverse playlist. They played stuff from Transatlanticism

Brandi Sea: 05:00 But did they do a little new like newish things to it?

Michelle: 05:04 Yeah they speckled, even in their, in their, um, encore, which I was a little annoyed that they did. I hate encores. I think they’re, awkward

Brandi Sea: 05:12 Oh I don’t

Michelle: 05:13 I think they’re so awkward

Brandi Sea: 05:14 They are awkward. But I, I’m always like, I paid for this show give me more music.

Michelle: 05:17 So yeah, at the encore I’m such like a, I was such a lame oh, Sunday night and I was like, oh my gosh, they still have their encore and it’s already 10:30, like it’s

Brandi Sea: 05:27 You’re so old, Michelle

Michelle: 05:28 I’m so old. Um, but their encore, they played four songs and one of them was a new one. The rest were all older

Brandi Sea: 05:34 Oh, I just meant like, um, you know, I’ve been to shows where they play an old song, but they play it just a little bit differently. So it’s a little new to them.

Michelle: 05:43 It was, it was incredible. It’s not new to them. They did not do that. It was all very much what we’ve been listening to.

Brandi Sea: 05:51 Everything you have memorized. Yeah.

Michelle: 05:53 Yeah. Um, and then there were some, there were some things that they did, like, I’ll talk about it in a little bit later. Um, there’s some things that they did that with just made it even more magical.

Brandi Sea: 06:01 I was late to the Death Cab game. I don’t think I discovered Death Cab until

Michelle: 06:06 I didn’t discover

Brandi Sea: 06:06 11, 2011.

Michelle: 06:08 Um

Brandi Sea: 06:09 Probably like where I actually knew that’s who it was. And started actively listening to their albums. Like I knew their songs and I didn’t know I knew them.

Michelle: 06:17 I started listening to them. I don’t know what album it was on. Um, I just start listening to them in like 2, 2000, I want to say like 2007 no, Whoa, that’s way too late. 2004, 2005. Um, and then the first album I bought was Plans. So I just remember being like, this is so cool. They’re so amazing. Cause that was like a way, there was a departure from what I listened to at the time. So

Brandi Sea: 06:42 Yeah, it is just knowing you.

Michelle: 06:45 Yeah. And

Brandi Sea: 06:46 It’s not TLC.

Michelle: 06:47 Definitely not TLC, no scrubs. Um, but then also I’ve just been, you know, Gosh, Easter, Easter, Easter, Easter, all day, every day. Um, my daughter joined soccer so I do that weekly now. So, um, there’s that. But also my daughter

Brandi Sea: 07:05 Speaking of your daughter

Michelle: 07:05 She did something wild today. My daughter is four years old, you guys. And she surprises me with the things she says and does all of the time. And today we were having coffee with, um, so we’re having coffee with a few friends and she’s, she’s like doing her own thing. We have the IPAD, she’s walking around petting this dog that was there and um, she disappears for a second and then comes back. And Kelly was like, where did you go? Like, what happened? She goes, oh, I just bought a Burrito and she had taken

Brandi Sea: 07:36 You’re like, are you playing pretend like you just bought a Burrito

Michelle: 07:39 Yeah we’re just like, wait, did you really? And she had Kelly’s card, she took it out of his phone

Brandi Sea: 07:46 His debit card?

Michelle: 07:47 His debit card went up to the register, got a Burrito and came back and sure enough, 10 minutes later her burrito came and she ate it. And I was like, like, and then afterwards too, we were talking about it in the car cause I was like, I really want to be mad at her, but like, I don’t know

Brandi Sea: 08:07 That’s kind of amazing.

Michelle: 08:08 Yeah. And she was like, are you impressed? She said that. And I was like, um, I’m not sure that’s the word I’d use. I was like so conflicted because like that is impressive. But also she didn’t have

Brandi Sea: 08:21 You basically stole your dad’s wallet and went and bought something.

Michelle: 08:24 Yeah, I’m like this can be a problem later in life, like, you can’t do this. And I was just like, you can’t buy anything unless we say it’s okay. And it was just like, it blew me. It blew my mind that it even happened.

Brandi Sea: 08:39 That is incredible.

Michelle: 08:39 And then I’m thinking as the Burrito’s like on its way. I’m thinking, well we already bought it, but man, she probably got it with some sort of Chili and then I’m going to have to eat it and I don’t want a Burrito. And then we have this burrito that nobody’s really enjoying

Brandi Sea: 08:51 And five bucks. You didn’t want to spend

Michelle: 08:53 And $5 I did not want to today. And she ordered it without Chili and ate the whole thing

Brandi Sea: 09:00 So she like legit, just wanted a burrito and she took it upon herself to do it on her own.

Michelle: 09:04 Yeah, it was so weird. It was so,

Brandi Sea: 09:07 God bless her independence, but man got to get a hold on that.

Michelle: 09:10 I don’t know what to do. Like I really don’t know what to do with what she just did. It’s like, oh, okay,

Brandi Sea: 09:16 What did Kelly do?

Michelle: 09:17 We were both just stunned.

Brandi Sea: 09:18 Dumbfounded.

Michelle: 09:19 Yeah. That’s the word. We were just like I that is wild. And we’re like, haha. Okay. Like kind of not believing that she really bought a burrito.

Brandi Sea: 09:29 Yeah, my first thought would have been what I said, like, oh, you’re pretending like he went and paid for a Burrito.

Michelle: 09:34 Yeah, and I’m like, I’m kind of thinking like, this is a coffee shop that we go to often. So we know everyone who works there. They, they had to have known that she was playing. Right. They didn’t really

Brandi Sea: 09:48 Apparently not

Michelle: 09:49 But they really did. And it was the, it was a wild experience of my four-year-old today.

Brandi Sea: 09:54 That’s amazing.

Michelle: 09:56 I’m like, ugh. That really happened. Um, so that’s basically my week Death Cab. Easter. My daughter brought a burrito

Brandi Sea: 10:02 That’s a great end to your week.

Michelle: 10:03 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 10:03 Did you have any music?

Michelle: 10:04 Yeah. So thanks. Death Cab for this one. So this is an Oldie, Oldie, but a goodie. Um, Death Cab came out with this album back in 2005, I want to say maybe 2006 actually it might’ve been 2006.

Brandi Sea: 10:18 Were you reminded of it because of the show?

Michelle: 10:20 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 10:20 Like you had kind of forgotten how much you love the song.

Michelle: 10:22 Oh my gosh. Well, I didn’t realize how much I love this song. Um, their album Plans, the first one that I bought, uh, they had, it had the song called What Sarah Said on it. And Man, this song live brought me to tears and it was, it was this part that we’re not going to get to today. So just go listen to the song

Michelle: 12:11 So that’s just a snippet of the song. And like I said, we’re not even going to get to the part that like rocked my world. It was like, it was like a spiritual and transcendental music

Brandi Sea: 12:23 And piano’s are so emotional anyways.

Michelle: 12:24 Yeah. Ben Gibber just has, he has, this voice

Brandi Sea: 12:27 He has such a void. It has such a unique voice. You can’t place him anywhere else.

Michelle: 12:33 Gosh, it was, it was a moment that I did not anticipate, honestly. It’s so cool. So that was my week. There’s my song.

Brandi Sea: 12:40 Yay. I’m just glad you brought a song.

Michelle: 12:42 Hey, no, sorry about that.

Brandi Sea: 12:43 I’m like, are you, are you like are you ok?

Michelle: 12:45 Like no else into music right now because

Brandi Sea: 12:48 What’s happening in your life?

Michelle: 12:49 And honestly when we get in the car. Um, cause that’s my only time to really listen to music is in the car. Kelly always plays his dumb playlists. And I’m like I don’t want to listen to the national

Brandi Sea: 12:59 I was going to say, you just finished telling me earlier today that like, you know the national song that

Michelle: 13:04 It’s a brand new song

Brandi Sea: 13:04 Brand new. Like you’re like, I just keep listening to this song.

Michelle: 13:08 Just like ugh

Brandi Sea: 13:09 I half expected you to bring that just cause like you didn’t know what else to bring.

Michelle: 13:12 I know

Brandi Sea: 13:13 But this one is a gem, so that’s great.

Michelle: 13:15 Yeah, it’s all right. So, good. So, but yeah, that’s when I listen to music cause in the car and Kelly chooses his stuff and I’m like okay

Brandi Sea: 13:21 You’re like I need to turn husband

Michelle: 13:24 Or I go to the gym. And the other day I went to the gym and I listened to M and M and like it’s

Brandi Sea: 13:31 You’re so hard like that.

Michelle: 13:32 I know just getting mad at the gym. And so I was listening to Lose Yourself.

Brandi Sea: 13:35 Oh. But I love that song.

Michelle: 13:37 And the fun thing about me listening to Lose Yourself is I know all of the lyrics. Like I don’t, I don’t know lyrics, but I took the time in high school to memorize those lyrics and so I know them. And so it’s really easy for me to listen to that song and work out at a good pace because I’m focusing on the song.

Brandi Sea: 13:55 Oh, that white man rage.

Michelle: 13:58 Yeah. All that white man, M and M is for real. And so yeah, I was listening to him and he got me through an hour at the gym, so thanks Marshall

Brandi Sea: 14:06 Oh my gosh, um, so let’s see my week, um, I, I don’t know the the rabbit hole that is Instagram

Michelle: 14:15 M and M, rabbit, sorry. Lose yourself. Continue

Brandi Sea: 14:19 Uh, I found this, these two designers that own this company called, um, two, I think it’s like two girls design or something to your Two Girls Co. And did they made this pin Um, that I had to order off Etsy. They’re from England and I paid more in shipping than I think than I did for the pin.

Michelle: 14:37 Yup.

Brandi Sea: 14:37 Um, and it took forever to get here, but it just says “girls who design” and it’s my favorite. So that was part of, that was part of my week. I was really excited. I came in the mail

Michelle: 14:45 That’s really awesome.

Brandi Sea: 14:46 I don’t ever wear pins, but I’m like, I feel like I need to wear this every day of my life. Um, so I really love, I just really love being a representative of girls in different, in a different sphere than like, you know.

Michelle: 15:01 Girl power in a sense

Brandi Sea: 15:03 Yeah, this is what I, this is what I do and this is what I love and

Michelle: 15:06 Like empowerment in

Brandi Sea: 15:07 In all the best ways.

Michelle: 15:08 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 15:09 Um, also um still preparing for our higher Ed, um, portfolio review with AIGA, that’ll be my last time heading it as education director because I’m transitioning into president so

Michelle: 15:26 Yay!

Brandi Sea: 15:26 So that’s cool. I had to, I got a great conversation with Hugh and this week finally, since like January, we hadn’t talked like on the phone, we’ve just been, you know, messaging and stuff.

Michelle: 15:37 Yeah

Brandi Sea: 15:38 So he had some, some good encouragement, some good insight, and some cool things. He’s going to be coming to New Mexico to visit with our board on some stuff since he’s on the national board.

Michelle: 15:46 Nice

Brandi Sea: 15:47 For AIGA. So, um, that uh, I’ve also been starting to prepare with Jasmine were

Michelle: 15:54 Your daughter

Brandi Sea: 15:55 My daughter. She’s going to be in a craft fair here in Los Lunas for Mother’s Day. I hadn’t told you this yet.

Michelle: 16:00 No, this is news

Brandi Sea: 16:00 We got her into a craft fair. She’s been making jewelry like really the whole machine lately. So it’s going to be like an offshoot of her fashion thing I guess whenever it gets going. And I had to have like a conversation with her about like, um, it, it didn’t come out with like the jargon of it, but basically like keeping your brand is important because we’ve already, we’ve already set her up as Honey and the Bug. Like, and that’s what she’s wanted for like four years. And then like two days ago I was like, okay, so we need to get like all your stuff ready. We got to figure out how we’re going to display your jewelry and like, you know, the marketing side.

Michelle: 16:36 Yeah, yeah yeah. She was like, okay

Brandi Sea: 16:38 She was like, okay, and um, are you going to do I need like business cards? And I was like, well yeah, we can do business cards if you want. Um, there’s, you know, I already have your logo. And she was like, oh, but I want the jewelry stuff to be cute as a button.

Michelle: 16:56 Oh, sorry.

Brandi Sea: 16:56 And I was like, but you’re already Honey in the Bug. And she was like, but can’t that be my fashion stuff? And this can be my jewelry stuff. And so like without like making it seem like I’m overtaking her venture, like I wanted her to understand like the importance of like not, not separating things too much because then people don’t make the connection that it’s you. I said, so like what if you, what if you did? Okay, if you decided to not do the fashion thing and you, you just had cute as a button, that’d be fine if we never did the fashion thing and you know, but if you do both and then have two separate names, it’s going to be confusing. Um, like we’re not Target who can also have Target and all their other sub-brands, like,

Michelle: 17:48 Yeah

Brandi Sea: 17:48 You need to commit to the thing. And she, you know, she’s a kid and she gets bored and she wants something new and exciting. She’s like, but you know, I’ve been Honey in the Bug and, but I’m like, but we haven’t done anything with it yet.

Michelle: 17:58 Right.

Brandi Sea: 17:58 Like we haven’t even put it out into the world very much.

Michelle: 18:01 Right.

Brandi Sea: 18:02 Um, so like I’ve been working with, with her,

Michelle: 18:05 That’s a hard thing to explain to. How old is she now? Gosh

Brandi Sea: 18:08 11

Michelle: 18:10 Holy moly. That’s a hard thing to explain. I mean, it’s, it’s just how things go, so she’ll, she’ll understand it. It’s just like, oh man. Like, you mean I can’t change this? Like, it’s hard for, a kid

Brandi Sea: 18:21 Yeah, I just wanted something new. Um like, but we’re just barely getting your other branding off the ground.

Michelle: 18:27 You’re like, go rearrange your room, that’ll be something new

Brandi Sea: 18:29 Clean it. That is something really new.

Michelle: 18:32 I love it.

Brandi Sea: 18:33 Um, so yeah, that’s been fun. Um, as something that has been inspiring me this week, honestly I’ve, I’ve had to force myself to be inspired to just do things. I, I I have taken on the hundred-day project challenge, um, basically to just make something every day. So in the choosing creativity, I’ve been having to kind of like go back through my inspiration folders on my phone and see like what, what was something that inspired me that I can use to work on something right now

Michelle: 19:09 That’s good.

Brandi Sea: 19:09 So I haven’t been like obviously or overtly inspired by something I’ve seen or anything this week. It’s just been like, okay, I know that I’ve been inspired by things like these past the two years that I’ve kept folders of that I haven’t used this inspiration that’s just been sitting there. So I don’t feel inspired today, but I have committed to make something today. So let me go look and see what I could use to make something

Michelle: 19:34 Right. That’s hard. That’s kind of difficult because it’s like it takes the going out and doing thing.

Brandi Sea: 19:38 Yeah, it does. And it’s also like great. Then I get stuck in like the the spiral down of looking through three years of photos. Like, oh, I remember that. And then I’m like, crap, I’m supposed to be looking for something to use.

Michelle: 19:51 It’s like, oh, it’s like deep cleaning the house. You’re just like, oh, but now I’m looking at all these pictures.

Brandi Sea: 19:56 I know, but now I can’t get

Michelle: 19:57 Memories. All these memories.

Brandi Sea: 19:59 Do you remember when that happened?

Michelle: 20:01 Do you have a song for this week?

Brandi Sea: 20:02 I do. And I, I think you’re gonna be shocked at the style that I’m bringing today and I am equally shocked. I don’t even know why. I mean, I’m just going to play it and then we’ll talk about it.

Michelle: 20:12 Sounds good

Michelle: 21:23 So what you’re saying is that I should have brought M and M

Brandi Sea: 21:29 Probably. I mean, yeah, I want to, I first, I want to know how shocked you are if you are, cause I was looking forward to shocking you.

Michelle: 21:35 I am a little like thrown off like oh this is not what you usually listen to. This isn’t Johnnyswim.

Brandi Sea: 21:43 Or Goo Goo Dolls

Michelle: 21:43 Or Goo Goo Dolls

Brandi Sea: 21:47 Or some obscure, band singing about Shakespeare.

Michelle: 21:50 But how shocked were you that I knew who this was?

Brandi Sea: 21:52 Pretty shocked!

Michelle: 21:53 Like, oh I think this has NF

Brandi Sea: 21:55 Because he, so NF is a, I don’t want to like pigeon hole him. He’s, he’s a believer who is a rapper.

Michelle: 22:02 Yeah. And he’s been on, he’s been on, he had a song on like top 40 for a while. I can’t remember what the song was, but they cut it down a lot. Um, but he had a really popular song on top 40 radio.

Brandi Sea: 22:13 Yeah. And I didn’t know that. I only recently heard him on, on the radio and when I heard this song, like something about it, just like, I don’t know if it was like the lyrics initially, but I don’t generally listen to songs on repeat very often, but for probably like three straight days, like I just could not get enough of this song last week.

Michelle: 22:36 Yeah. The song by NF is called Let You Down the one that was on top 40.

Brandi Sea: 22:41 That one’s good too.

Michelle: 22:41 So yeah, it was played like all over the place. But yeah, no, he’s, he’s an incredible rap artists.

Brandi Sea: 22:47 And his lyrics are like very meaningful.

Michelle: 22:51 They’re deep

Brandi Sea: 22:51 They’re not surfacey hip hop stuff like that, you know, and he, he’s not just like trying to, trying to rhyme stuff and be weird

Michelle: 22:58 That he’s got it. He’s a great lyricist.

Brandi Sea: 23:01 Um, so the, I, the chorus is really the part that I love the most. If you want love, you’re going to have to go through the pain. If you want love, you’re going to have to learn how to change. If you want trust, you’re going to have to give some away in if you want love. Um, and like, I wish somebody would have told me these things is like the point of the song. Like I wish someone would’ve told me. Basically, it’s about expectations. Like I wish someone would have told me that I’m going to have to change a little bit for somebody that, um, I’m going to have to give trust in order to get trust. Like, um, and I don’t know if it’s, it’s not necessarily where I am personally, but um Kenny and I lead, um, I don’t usually talk about this kind of stuff, but this is my life. Um, Kenny and I help lead a marriage group at church that’s basically to help people that are on the verge of divorce. Like some of them already have divorce papers, some are separated and it’s called reengaged, excuse me. And it’s like this really awesome thing. It’s class and it lasts like 16 weeks. So a lot of what we’ve been talking about is like how relationships, but obviously marriages, but relationships usually go down the tubes because of those expectations, like being one way or another. And this song was like so meaningful to me because it’s like

Michelle: 24:17 It’s talking about that.

Brandi Sea: 24:18 Yeah. It’s like I wish someone would have told me these things like

Michelle: 24:22 We were just talking about that like a few hours ago

Brandi Sea: 24:24 We were, yeah. In relation to like getting married young

Michelle: 24:27 And I, and I wasn’t even like, we weren’t even talking now this song or anything crazy. It’s real though. It the expectations are wild and you don’t know a lot of stuff.

Brandi Sea: 24:39 Yeah, I mean, and in the context of like even even in the context of like creativity and the creative as a, as a job, the creative as the freelance creative as a job, it’s like I always wished somebody would have told me like how hard it is. Like being creative sounds really flashy. Like you get to create all day, but it’s like stinking hard and it’s so vulnerable. I posted on Facebook or on Instagram and Facebook this past week that like creativity is the most vulnerable thing that you can do. Being creative. And it’s true. Like you can have so many other jobs in you’re in, there are so many hundreds of thousands of jobs that you could have where you don’t have to be vulnerable. What we do is not that

Michelle: 25:25 You’re constantly putting something out that was in your brain and hoping that people like it.

Brandi Sea: 25:30 Right. Which is an, and I am, I’m doing this on purpose. Like this actually leads directly into what we’re going to talk about today. Like putting yourself into your work. Um, because it’s like there are, there’s like lists upon lists upon lists on Instagram and on blogs and Pinterest where it’s like five things they didn’t teach you in college about being in graphic design. And I’ve written one, like, not necessarily to that extent, but like things that you can do to be better in design school. But it’s like one of those things that I don’t think gets talked about enough is like you have to be willing to be vulnerable. And I wish someone would have told me that. Like, I wish someone would have told me you have to be vulnerable. I wish someone would have told me, you have to have your own voice.

Michelle: 26:17 Right.

Brandi Sea: 26:18 Um, so I mean, I guess we can just go right into talking about this.

Michelle: 26:21 Yeah, so the topic this week is, um, how do we, how do we not lose our voice within a project that we’re doing for someone else?

Brandi Sea: 26:32 Which is most projects, unless it’s a personal project

Michelle: 26:35 Yeah, like I mean even even, um, your, even your book cover Hemingway, um, project like you had, you had to, you wanted to keep your own voice but also, um,

Brandi Sea: 26:48 Be a reflection of what he’s talking about

Michelle: 26:50 Exactly what the book is about.

Brandi Sea: 26:52 I mean, so this is, this is really hard and it’s been a, it’s still a journey for me. And this was part of what I, what I went to James Victore to be, be helped with. And the reason that I got and still get so much value out of what he has to say is, um, the voice thing is hard because when you go to, at least when I went and I don’t know how they’re approaching it now, especially that, you know, I, I approach it as an instructor differently now that I have, you know, gone to James Victore’s thing. But when I was in, in design school, they teach you, you know, cause it’s more of like an advertising bent. You know, most graphic designers go into some sort of advertising wing that you, you take yourself out of it, you are taught, you are, it is drilled into you that you need to take your, to be objective. Take yourself out of this equation because it doesn’t matter what you like. And I know that I’ve said that in different contexts. Does it matter if you like it? Does it work

Michelle: 27:49 It’s not your project

Brandi Sea: 27:50 It doesn’t matter. You know, you, you’re not being paid to put you into your work is what I was always told. You’re being paid basically to, to be a technician. And that’s what I was taught. Even though on the other hand, it’s completely, it’s like, uh, they’re, they’re telling you it’s black and also telling you it’s white at the same time. It’s like you’re not being paid for your opinions, but also you need to be super creative and have all these ideas that are your opinions. And so I, I very much went to the side of like, okay, I’m just going to have to like, and I now know this as a, as a three that I can be a chameleon and kind of sit back into whatever group I’m in.

Michelle: 28:32 Whatever you think you, whatever you think I am is exactly what I am.

Brandi Sea: 28:36 Yeah. Or whatever you need me to be right now will be that. And I can, and I believe it

Michelle: 28:40 And you’ll do it well.

Brandi Sea: 28:41 And I do. And so, but I feel like that has been a detriment to me and finding my own voice because I would take on a client and just immerse myself in that so that I could represent them well. And I think that that’s good

Michelle: 28:56 In a way. It is. Yeah

Brandi Sea: 28:57 But then I completely like sifted myself out altogether. Um, and I, I feel that, but then, um, I mean you and Dominic have both told me and even Kenny, like people that are close to me have said that like, you have a style.

Michelle: 29:13 Yeah. You do

Brandi Sea: 29:13 In my design work

Michelle: 29:14 And you like, I bet you kind of hate that.

Brandi Sea: 29:16 No, I don’t see it.

Michelle: 29:18 You, Oh, you but are you okay with having a style, because I know when I’m looking at your work

Brandi Sea: 29:23 I used to not like it because of that reason. Like, oh, I shouldn’t be showing in my work. I’m not, you’re not supposed to see me. You’re supposed to see the work.

Michelle: 29:32 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 29:33 And that’s why it was so revolutionary and I needed it so badly for James Victore to say like your voice matters, like sign your work. Like

Michelle: 29:44 Yup

Brandi Sea: 29:44 You are in this, you can’t. And I think I am just now in the past few years realizing that I can’t take me out of my work.

Michelle: 29:52 You can’t. That’s impossible.

Brandi Sea: 29:55 And why would I want to?

Michelle: 29:57 Yeah. So I guess it’s like, where do you find that balance?

Brandi Sea: 30:00 So I think where I’m at right now. Um, and this is part of also why I took on the hundred-day challenge is to play more and find, see if I can even find my voice more. So I know that I have a style, but I think a style is different from a voice. Um, so I think that I have been able to be okay now with having the style which is clean. Um, and I know that’s super like jargony of a design thing to say like it’s a clean, I have a clean design look

Michelle: 30:29 It, I mean, um, it, it is, but it’s not at the same time because we live in a world of, in social media and we live in a social media world where clean is in. So it’s like people know what that means.

Brandi Sea: 30:42 Yeah. So I mean, I think in in this process, figuring out that a voice is like what you have to say and a style is how you say it. And I’m, I’m finding is, especially in interviewing other people that we get on and we asked them to talk about their style. It’s giving me like a better idea of like what is my style and what do I like? And what you like is also part of your voice.

Michelle: 31:08 Yeah. And, and also, um, that it’s okay to have a voice because as you said, like you, it was kind of like squashed out of you for a while. But when we’re talking to other people, you recognize this, oh, this is what they do. And like they’re okay if they can do it, why can’t I?

Brandi Sea: 31:26 Yeah.

Michelle: 31:26 You can.

Brandi Sea: 31:27 And you’re being hired for you. Yeah. So like if, if there is nothing else that you get out of this, like your voice and your style is what you have that the designer next door that has the exact same technical skills that you have doesn’t have. It’s that, it’s that, what is the French way of saying je ne sais quoi. It’s the, I don’t know what, it’s the thing that you can

Michelle: 31:54 Je ne sais pas

Brandi Sea: 31:54 Okay

Michelle: 31:55 So I don’t know.

Brandi Sea: 31:57 Sure, it’s the thing that you can’t really pin down exactly. Like you can say,

Michelle: 32:03 I don’t know what it is, but this is so there’s something different about this.

Brandi Sea: 32:05 It’s if you have two people that you want to hire and they both have, you know, the same skills, but they have a different way of presenting those skills. That is what’s going to lean one way or the other.

Michelle: 32:18 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 32:18 And that I think is something that I didn’t realize. I’m like, well I just do it better. I can, I can do it better. And that was always my thing.

Michelle: 32:28 Your, your motor, your motivation was to give them what they wanted and, and just be better than whoever else was or competitor for you

Brandi Sea: 32:36 And do it in a better way. Yeah, I can, I can give you what you want and have, have the best possible looking thing for you and have it work and have it be flawless and have reasons and all the things.

Michelle: 32:49 It’s also like a source of pride in a way.

Brandi Sea: 32:51 Oh yeah, of course.

Michelle: 32:53 But once you recognize that you can have your own voice and that carries with you through every project. Like, I feel like that you come to a lot more of, um, like a peace with it as well. Like you’re okay with this being a thing because it is okay, but you might not have been okay with this seven years ago.

Brandi Sea: 33:11 Yeah, I absolutely wasn’t. And I, I didn’t under, I always thought that like, and I had, I think I’ve even had conversations with Dominic who’s an illustrator and graphic designer about this, like, oh, illustrators and fine artists can have a voice. You can have a style. You have the luxury of like putting yourself into your work. I don’t have that. Like I don’t think that I have the opportunity to do that.

Michelle: 33:36 That’s what makes you a technician then

Brandi Sea: 33:38 Right.

Michelle: 33:38 And you’re not a technician?

Brandi Sea: 33:39 And I’m not, and I never have been, but I never saw it that way. I, I, and that’s why I used to be kind of like, what do you mean? You can tell it’s my work. Ah, I don’t like that.

Michelle: 33:51 Like a disappointment.

Brandi Sea: 33:52 Yeah.

Michelle: 33:53 So what would you say to somebody who, who is trying to find their voice? Like how do they do that?

Brandi Sea: 34:00 I think you just need to make things. You need to make more things. And um I doing the process and all that. Seems like it would take you out of it like it would take away your voice. But in, in the process, I find that I’ve, I’ve found myself more because those words that are coming out of, out of me onto the page before I go to the thesaurus because I’ve run out of words, those come from me. Those come from my life experiences. Those come from my point of view. Um, those come from people that I know that I hang out with. The words that I hear the jargon.

Michelle: 34:35 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 34:36 All of that stuff is me.

Michelle: 34:38 And, and someone, um, is going to relate with that. So I love, I love when I see, um, a great something like a poster or like if, whether it’d be like a meme that was really well designed. I love when I see something of that nature that I can connect with on a jargon level of being like, oh, I like that saying, that’s so funny. Or look at this. That’s so great. Are All, yes, I totally get that. I love that because it tells me something about that person that person’s on the same levels me and make, they can just put it into a visual way better than I can.

Brandi Sea: 35:13 Yeah.

Michelle: 35:13 And I love that

Brandi Sea: 35:14 It gives you, and it’s, it’s also this idea of like, um, finding the more, what is it about you that makes you special? Like, and I’m still, like I said, I’m still working through finding this because I’ve been in this other world for so long that I’m like, I don’t know what about my work is special and kind of took it kind of took Hugh Weber kind of pointing out at one point. And I think I’ve talked about this, the fact that, um, he once told me, I can find, basically, I can see inspiration and see something in very mundane things like nobody else has ever met. And that is my voice. And that’s my, that’s like the thing that I think that I can do better than a lot of people. And how can I put that into it? And I did that with the Hemingway thing.

Michelle: 36:06 Yeah. And I think that you’ve been, you and others, um, even gravitate towards people who have very prominent voices in their work. Um, like I want to say James Victore is one, like you, you know his hand, like you know his voice, like you, when you see his work, um, a lot of times you’re just like, yeah, that’s definitely

Brandi Sea: 36:27 Right

Michelle: 36:27 James Victore. And same with, I remember you were really into um, Aaron Draplin. He has the, you know.

Brandi Sea: 36:33 He’s just got a stamp by the way.

Michelle: 36:34 Oh, really

Brandi Sea: 36:35 He just designed a US stamp.

Michelle: 36:35 That’s so cool!

Brandi Sea: 36:36 That’s incredible

Michelle: 36:37 No way! And you got to go watch him speak.

Brandi Sea: 36:39 He’s coming again the summer by the way

Michelle: 36:41 Oh, that’s so cool. Um, but he, he also seems to have his voice. Like anything I look at, I’m like, Yup, Yup

Brandi Sea: 36:48 Yeah. All the people I’m super attracted to design wise, have a very distinct voice and style. Who else were you going to say?

Michelle: 36:54 Ah, I want to say his name is Jason Munn?

Brandi Sea: 36:58 Munn, Jason Munn

Michelle: 37:01 Jason Munn poster dude, poster guy. Because he has his voice. Like people, um, literally he is hired for his voice.

Brandi Sea: 37:08 Yes

Michelle: 37:09 He is specifically high. And then again, that’s illustration, right? Most of them. I know not all the time

Brandi Sea: 37:14 Ish, he’s, he’s a, he’s an illustrator-designer, yeah.

Michelle: 37:17 But like he has his voice and that’s why he’s hired. So you and probably everyone that is within this world, whether they know it or not are drawn to the people that they look up to because of their voice.

Brandi Sea: 37:29 Yeah. Well and here, here’s the thing to kind of put it and I, I know that I always come back to food because it seems like the most relatable, but like you know that when you go, you know what you’re getting when you go to 31 flavors, I’m sorry, Baskin Robbins. I’m from New Mexico

Michelle: 37:43 Where’s that?

Brandi Sea: 37:43 Sorry, I grew up calling it 31 flavors. Um, you know what you’re getting when you go to Mcdonald’s, you know what you’re getting when you go to the specialty cupcake house, you’re going there for their specific thing.

Michelle: 38:00 Exactly.

Brandi Sea: 38:00 And people do the same thing with design for the most part. Like especially if they really care, you’re going to go looking for a designer that looks like something you like, that looks like something you relate to. And if you just go, like if you go to my, my portfolio right now and look at all the work I’ve done over, over these past like 17 years or whatever, um, I don’t, I don’t, I couldn’t pinpoint like what exactly someone is getting from me.

Michelle: 38:28 And I mean I do think that your voice stays with you. I’m quo, I like quote voice in my head. Your voice stays you throughout your work the entire time, but it also evolves and that’s okay. Um, I wouldn’t, I’d have to go back and look and be like, here, here it is. This is what it, and like, it’s probably not something you can say like this is it, but you have one and I’m currently, this is a really interesting time to even talk about this cause I was thinking about what, what does my work look like specifically with what I’m doing? Um, like even like

Brandi Sea: 39:01 Your role has shifted.

Michelle: 39:02 My role has shifted it work

Brandi Sea: 39:03 You’re now creating more as opposed to being just like a, a help, a helper production person.

Michelle: 39:08 And now I’m getting this, I have a few videos under my belt

Brandi Sea: 39:13 That you’ve made

Michelle: 39:13 That I’ve made and I’m trying to figure out what does my work look like, what I want to stay consistent, but I also want to grow. But when they hand it over, what can they expect to see? Like I know with this person they’re going to look like I’m going to see a lot of like symmetry and a lot of lines and this person, I’m going to see a lot of these types of shots and this person, like I just, everyone has like this, like things that they gravitate towards and they just always have whether they know it or not. What is my thing? So that’s what I’m kind of going through right now at work. Like what is my thing?

Brandi Sea: 39:46 So I mean, I don’t know, even if I answered the question and, and since you’re kind of in this place right now, maybe that’s why you’re asking the question. Like in finding your voice, I would say the things that you are consistently attracted to is probably part of your voice and how you do that thing, just your way. So if, um, if you are really attracted to, um, super high contrast and like really, really punchy colors with really dark shadows, um, maybe that’s your style.

Michelle: 40:20 I feel like you’re onto something with that. Maybe it’s because you’ve seen how I’ve edited every single one of my photos. So

Brandi Sea: 40:26 I have. I’m saying this from experience.

Michelle: 40:28 And what’s funny is that you’re not going to see that in this video, but only because the video that I had, I did plays this weekend at church. But, um, the all, you’re only not going to see that because my screens, it turns out are very off. They’re not calibrators and none of our screens are calibrated. And so what’s going to play live is not what I edited

Brandi Sea: 40:46 And then the screens on, on stage look different too.

Michelle: 40:49 And there we have amazing LEDs at church. So like they’re going to look incredible. It’ll, it’ll look great, but it’s not what I edited

Brandi Sea: 40:56 Right.

Michelle: 40:56 It looks way more pink. And I was like, ah, that’s wrong. That’s not how, what it looks like on my come, everybody come to my desk, everybody come to my desk here, this is what I wanted you to see.

Brandi Sea: 41:04 Yeah. Um, so, and, and in that, that could be your style or you know, but that might, that might not necessarily be the right style for everything. So how then do you put your voice in and then you have to find your voice in other contexts because, and that’s where it becomes kind of like a give and take I think at this point with, um, for me it’s like, on one hand, I think I really love, um, I do love minimalistic and I love really deep concepts. Like,

Michelle: 41:34 Yeah

Brandi Sea: 41:35 I sat and explained to Kenny and, and I will do this with you after we get off, but uh, or maybe on another episode, all the things behind my Hemingway cover. And he was like, I wouldn’t have known that. Looking at that straight off the bat. And I’m like, I know.

Michelle: 41:49 Right.

Brandi Sea: 41:49 And that’s like

Michelle: 41:51 That’s the beauty

Brandi Sea: 41:51 That’s my voice, I think. I dunno. I think I just said it like my voice maybe is knowing that there’s more in there that I have to tell you. Like there’s always more to find in the designs that I do

Michelle: 42:01 And I mean that’s what I love about, um, production behind the scenes type stuff is like you don’t know that that shot actually took an hour and a half to set up

Brandi Sea: 42:10 And here’s why

Michelle: 42:10 We did this and look, I’m dropping that right there. And like you don’t know that’s me. I’m not in this. But I dropped that. Like there’s my role. Like I did that and so I love that type of stuff too. So maybe my voice isn’t necessarily even in my editing

Brandi Sea: 42:24 The style.

Michelle: 42:24 It’s, it’s in what I get. How do I get there?

Brandi Sea: 42:27 Right.

Michelle: 42:28 So it’s like a therapy session.

Brandi Sea: 42:30 Hey, this is great. Because honestly like when we first talked about voice a hundred or so episodes ago,

Michelle: 42:37 Almost ninety episodes

Brandi Sea: 42:39 I was in a different place.

Michelle: 42:40 Yeah

Brandi Sea: 42:40 I was probably, I hadn’t even gone to James Victore yet at that point

Michelle: 42:44 You hadn’t gone to James Victore and I think you just had answers as to how to find your voice. Not necessarily, uh, you had experienced, but you didn’t know you didn’t have those words.

Brandi Sea: 42:51 And I’m still, I’m still playing around with it because, on one hand, I love this really clean, super deep concept look. But on the other hand, I also love mixed media and like I paint over photographs and like I’ve got this massive

Michelle: 43:04 Canvas

Brandi Sea: 43:04 Canvas sitting in my office that I am dying to do something with.

Michelle: 43:08 I would not be dying to do anything with that. That’s so daunting.

Brandi Sea: 43:11 How big is it? I can’t read it.

Michelle: 43:12 It looks like it’s three by three it’s a square.

Brandi Sea: 43:16 Yeah. 36 by 36. So is that three by three?

Michelle: 43:19 12 24 36. Yes.

Brandi Sea: 43:20 Good job.

Michelle: 43:21 I’m like math

Brandi Sea: 43:23 It’s a thing. I guess

Michelle: 43:24 I was just guessing three by three.

Brandi Sea: 43:26 Yeah. So, um, it’s finding your voice is a journey and I don’t want it to just be like, sorry guys, you’re going to have to figure it out for yourself. I’m not going to help you. So I think that like looking at consistencies in what you do and trying to find themes in what you would do, um, in, in what you do, in your own personal work, like stuff you do when you can do whatever you want just for fun and what you do for clients. Try and find like the commonalities in there.

Michelle: 43:57 The common denominator

Brandi Sea: 43:58 You’ll, you’ll find those things.

Michelle: 44:00 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 44:00 And I need to take my own advice so we’ll see you. I’m going to go do that.

Michelle: 44:05 Okay. But first, don’t go.

Brandi Sea: 44:06 Okay. So Michelle, where can people find us?

Michelle: 44:09 Well, people can find us on all forms of social media via @brandisea

Brandi Sea: 44:14 B R A N D I S E A

Michelle: 44:16 Um, you could also email us at brandi@brandisea.com As well as follow us on Instagram Design speaks, @designspeakspodcasts. Um, and if you get any value from this little show of ours, you should definitely hit up iTunes. Tell us, and then also share with your friends.

Brandi Sea: 44:33 Yeah, we love honest opinions and we want them all.

Michelle: 44:35 Yeah. And a big thanks to Vesperteen for allowing us to use his song as the intro and outro to our podcast

Brandi Sea: 44:42 And to Joelle for our incredible show notes and transcription.

Michelle: 44:47 We cannot exist without her. Literally, I could not.

Brandi Sea: 44:50 I have thought, man, how did we do this without her?

Michelle: 44:54 I don’t know. I think it was just a burden on both of us that we were like, maybe if we just don’t, it will go away.

Brandi Sea: 45:00 You’re so right. That’s exactly right, so thank you, Joelle

Michelle: 45:04 Joelle, to the rescue.