This week Michelle wants to know about “Why?”. Why is it so important, when, where, and WHY do you ask why when you are designing. We also chat about Fred Armisen, Donald Miller, and Shakespeare, buckle up, lol.

Music This Week:

Michelle’s song: “Graduate” by Third Eye Blind

Brandi’s song: “Lisztomania” by Phoenix

Michelle’s Week:

Michelle started her week by getting to see Fred Armisen live on stage. For those of us who do not know who that is he is a creator of many things. He was a member of SNL for a few seasons and a cast member of Portlandia. So that really blessed her week. Then she got to go to a baseball game with family which was fun even though she is not a huge sports fan. And finally, Michelle’s daughter graduated from PreK! So exciting but Michelle had a bit of an emotional day.

Brandi’s Week:

Brandi is still working on her website. Very necessary work since it keeps breaking. Right now she’s really working on what the goal of her website will be. To help figure that out she has been going through a lot of Donald Miller‘s videos. Also, Brandi wants to start to bring something new to her week, where she brings some new things that are happening in the design world. This week Brandi has heard from Folger Shakespeare Library Podcast that they are bringing VR Shakespeare performances. You can check out that podcast if you want to learn more about it. And Brandi also brought up the Design Observer podcast where they talked about Facebook taking away the blue bar making the APP look so much cleaner. Go and listen to that podcast as well to hear a really cool theory about why Facebook could be making all these changes. 

Takeaways about why:

• Questioning your decisions checks your motives.
• Asking why allows you to have a backbone to understanding what you’re doing. Once you understand it you can then more easily explain it to others.
• Asking why is going to be in every part of the process when you are design problem-solving.
• Asking why is beneficial to you.
• When you are answering why the answer needs to have a non-feelings answer. It needs to have a logical answer.
• Ask why based on your problem. 
• Ask why until you can’t ask yourself why anymore. 
• The deeper you can go with asking why gives more depth to your design.
• Continue down the rabbit hole of why.
• Asking why doesn’t leave the equation, regardless of how experienced you are.

Please rate and review our podcast in iTunes and if you want to support our show please go to Patreon.com/designspeaks we would love it! You can give as much as you want. Every little bit goes to helping us keep this podcast going.

Thank you to Vesperteen for allowing us to use his song Shatter in the Night as our intro and outro music for Design Speaks

This Quarter’s Book:

We are reading and reviewing books on the podcast every quarter!

If you would like to read along, THIS QUARTER, we’ve been reading, The Secret Lives of Color by Kassia St. Clair.

Want to support us?

Go to Patreon and help support our podcast!

Find us on all forms of social media via @BrandiSea on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and you can email us any burning questions you want Brandi to answer on an episode at brandi@brandisea.com.

THANK YOU to the ultra-talented  Vesperteen (Colin Rigsby) for letting us use his (“Shatter in The Night”) track in every episode of Design Speaks.

TRANSCRIPTION

Michelle: 00:01 No.

Brandi: 00:02 Oh, you were thinking gills. Oh, well it sounds fishy. She’s trying to do a pun and I don’t understand. I’m just gonna move on…

Michelle: 00:07 Well, there it is…

Intro: 00:11 Welcome to Design Speaks. This lovely podcast is brought to you by a graphic design geek and a regular human being. We here to chat about music, pop culture, cool places, and basically do whatever we feel is relevant.

Brandi: 00:27 Hey guys, I’m Brandi Sea

Michelle: 00:28 And I’m Michelle

Brandi: 00:29 And you’re listening to episode 99 of Design Speak.

Michelle: 00:33 We are one away. If you are bad at math one away from the big 100 it’s kind of crazy.

Brandi: 00:40 You’re going to start saying 100 and something.

Michelle: 00:44 That’s, really? That’s crazy.

Brandi: 00:47 Or are we going to go 1 0 1 episode?

Michelle: 00:49 I like that. I like that.

Brandi: 00:51 It’s like this is Design Speaks 1 0 1

Michelle: 00:53 Oooo. Design Speaks 1 0 1. It’s like the class.

Brandi: 00:55 Till It’s 1 0 2.

Michelle: 00:56 Then we start charging. Cause it’s classes

Brandi: 00:58 Till you get to 1 0 4 and then you graduate

Michelle: 01:00 And you graduated

Brandi: 01:01 Speaking of graduating.

Michelle: 01:03 That leads right into my week. Um, but first on today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about why asking why to ask why the power of why and everything involved involved in why

Brandi: 01:14 I thought you were gonna say and everything and vibes. And I was like, oh, that means, Michelle

Michelle: 01:19 No. We are like, at this point of the day in this weekend, it’s the weekend for us. We are like kind of punch drunk right now.

Brandi: 01:26 We’re a little punch drunk

Michelle: 01:27 So tired

Brandi: 01:29 We’ve just been going, going, going

Michelle: 01:30 Which is fun. At least we are having busy, enjoy-full, enjoying,

Brandi: 01:37 Enjoy-full. Sure, enjoy-full.

Michelle: 01:38 See. I’m not in like, I’m not going to cut that because that just, it’s, it is what it

Brandi: 01:42 I actually really like that word. I’m gonna write it down. I don’t know what I’m going to use it for but

Michelle: 01:45 What word was I trying to say?

Brandi: 01:49 Joyful? Enjoyable?

Michelle: 01:49 Joyful! Enjoyable. Enjoy-full. Write it down. Make it a thing. It’s a thing. Thank you.

Brandi: 01:56 It’s officially a thing

Michelle: 01:57 No, this week has been so much fun. And also not a whole lot of fun at the same time, but I’m going to talk about the fun things on Monday. I got to go see, um, Fred Armisen in inaction on the stage

Brandi: 02:11 For the uncultured in our audience

Michelle: 02:15 For the uncultured

Brandi: 02:16 Who is Fred Armisen?

Michelle: 02:17 Fred Armisen is the creator of many things. He was on SNL as a cast member for a few seasons. Um, he was also, he’s also part of a popular TV show

Brandi: 02:27 You may have heard of it

Michelle: 02:29 Portlandia, um, loves Portland and he, and I’m happy to say that he’s just

Brandi: 02:34 Is he from Portland?

Michelle: 02:34 I don’t know if he’s, no, he’s not from Portland. He is, he said it on, he’s from Long Island. He’s from New York. Um, I was like, he said it in his act. What is he? Um, he was from New York, but he loves Portland and I’m just, I’m happy to report that how he is in Portlandia is just how he is in real life. He’s just this really funny, witty, intellectual, weird dude.

Brandi: 02:58 I love it.

Michelle: 02:59 And he’s so cool.

Brandi: 03:00 I’m so jealous you got to go. I don’t remember why I couldn’t go, but I couldn’t go.

Michelle: 03:03 So he, um, me not telling you he was here, was that it?

Brandi: 03:07 No, you told me like two weeks before and then I was like, oh, I want to go with you. And then I think it’s just those that came up. I don’t remember

Michelle: 03:14 That’s life. Um, he had an act comedy standup routine that he’s traveling right now with these touring. It’s called comedy for musicians, but everyone is welcome. And I knew from the title that I was going to love it and I did. It was so good. Um, so I was blessed by some Fred Armisen on Monday. Um, I got to go to a baseball game with the family. I’m not big on sports but turns out

Brandi: 03:41 Yay sports

Michelle: 03:41 Sports! Things are happening out there.

Brandi: 03:43 There’s a ball

Michelle: 03:44 It’s flying in the air. Um, but my, it turns out my dad really likes baseball, so I just

Brandi: 03:51 Which is just something you literally just learned.

Michelle: 03:52 I just learned like we’re sitting at the baseball game, um, obviously

Brandi: 03:57 Could’ve been standing.

Michelle: 03:58 I could have been standing, I guess. We were sitting and he was like, Oh, it’s a submarine pitcher. And I’m just like, is he underwater? Is that why he’s a submarine pitcher? So dumb. And he was like, no, he’s an underhand pitcher. And I was like

Brandi: 04:13 Is that a thing?

Michelle: 04:14 Oh I and like he sounded so confident when he said it so I believed it and then I had to look it up later and it’s true. I was like, I was like, I don’t know if he’s lying to me

Brandi: 04:23 You’re like, were you drunk when you made this up?

Michelle: 04:24 Right, exactly. And so it turns out he’s like a big baseball fan and just hid it from me all of his life, my life

Brandi: 04:32 All of your life

Michelle: 04:32 My life and his, no, apparently he told me he like played baseball. I was like, oh cool. I was like

Brandi: 04:40 You’re like, did you do that in a motorcycle cuz I only knew you to be into motorcycles

Michelle: 04:42 Yeah, never once in my childhood did he like steer me or my brother towards sports. My brother like naturally went to football but I never was into sports. I was like, haha, jocks are losers and

Brandi: 04:55 Hey, hey, hey

Michelle: 04:57 Stayed right there.

Brandi: 04:57 Stay in your circle

Michelle: 04:59 Stay in your lane. My Circle Lane, my choir, I’m in choir but I, so I just didn’t ever go that way. But it turns out he really likes it. And then today, my four-year-old graduated from preK

Brandi: 05:15 And you’re tearing up.

Michelle: 05:16 It’s so she so

Brandi: 05:18 Michelle keeps looking at the ceiling, so while she composes herself. We’re also videotaping. We’re, that’s not a thing

Michelle: 05:27 It’s 1999

Brandi: 05:30 We’re recording.

Michelle: 05:31 Yes.

Brandi: 05:31 Video of the podcast starting today. I’m going to try and do it more so you’ll be able to see Michelle staring at the ceiling while she tries to keep the tears away.

Michelle: 05:39 She is so cute and also drives me insane at the very same time.

Brandi: 05:44 Well everybody loved the Burrito story, so

Michelle: 05:47 Yeah. Oh really? Oh, I love it. Um, she, she got all the way through pre k. I read a really cool, um, oh, what is it called? A really cool quote. And it’s not PR, it’s not pertaining to like pre k but to high school. And it said, um, graduating from high school isn’t a big deal, but not graduating is a failure. And it’s just like, oh man, that’s weird how people like, look at that. Like, like if you didn’t graduate from high school, it’s like, wow, you definitely failed. Like that’s weird. I’m not to say that you are a failure if you didn’t graduate, to be honest like, but like that’s how it’s kind of viewed. But the graduating high school isn’t a big deal. So like that like kind of put into perspective for me for pre k, I’m like, I about three weeks ago I went up to um, the people at the front desk at her school and I was like, is there really a big deal if I don’t buy her a cap and gown? Because they’d said it was optional and I was like, can I just buy her like

Brandi: 06:42 Cuz she’s gonna wear it one time.

Michelle: 06:43 One time. Now I have to like force her to wear it for fun.

Brandi: 06:46 Jasmine’s Pre k just loaned them out.

Michelle: 06:49 See I wish they would have, I would have paid $5 for that.

Brandi: 06:51 Yeah.

Michelle: 06:52 Like for dry cleaning or something.

Brandi: 06:53 Yeah they just did it for free or something. Make sure you iron it.

Michelle: 06:55 I’m going to make sure like next year I’m just going to give it to a bunch of people. Like when is your pre k graduation? Okay. Give it back to me on this day. Um

Brandi: 07:03 No, you can rent out pre-k gowns.

Michelle: 07:05 Rent it out and make my money back

Brandi: 07:06 Have a business.

Michelle: 07:07 I really should $5 covers. It covers cleaning. Um, they way she wore it for an hour

Brandi: 07:14 If that

Michelle: 07:14 And it was $25. But anyway, they’re like, they’re like, yeah, if you don’t want her to feel left out, you should probably buy her a cap and gown. And I was like, oh, okay, here’s my money.

Brandi: 07:26 And then you took the pictures and then you saw the pictures.

Michelle: 07:28 I saw the pictures

Brandi: 07:29 And they are adorable and it was all worth it.

Michelle: 07:31 It’s so worth it. But like that quote from that weird high school thing was like changed my perspective. I’m like, Pre k doesn’t seem like a big deal, but like it’s a big deal to her. It’s like, and it really is like this is the furthest she’s been in her life. And so we made like a big deal out of it for her and she had a good day

Brandi: 07:50 It’s also starting next year. She’s like,

Michelle: 07:50 Oh my gosh

Brandi: 07:51 I lost it for kinder. God help you cause I, I couldn’t hold it together. I was a mess the whole day.

Michelle: 07:57 Just a blubbery mess.

Brandi: 07:58 And I’m like, I’m not the mom that cries. Yeah right

Michelle: 08:00 What am I doing? Turns out you are.

Brandi: 08:01 Turns out, I am

Michelle: 08:02 Like all of the teachers on the stage today for preschool. We’re just like

Brandi: 08:08 I couldn’t see her face when they were talking. I’m like, she’s definitely crying.

Michelle: 08:10 I was tearing up. I was like, don’t cry because they’re crying. That’s stupid. And I would do it anyway, so I tried not to

Brandi: 08:17 Except that’s what you do.

Michelle: 08:18 That’s what I do. I’m an empathetic cryer and then it cry also.

Brandi: 08:21 That’s why I got you a handkerchief for Mother’s Day.

Michelle: 08:22 I know you got me. Okay. This is the best gift I didn’t, I can’t. Oh, I did get a gift from Mother’s. I’ve got a few gifts from Mother’s Day. I got a plant and then I, which I love. I love my brother in law or my sister in law got for me, one of them, my sister in law got it for me. I’m like, oh shoot

Brandi: 08:39 That’s strange for brother in law to get you something like that

Michelle: 08:41 No, he would totally get me plant too, but that’s why I thought it was him originally.

Brandi: 08:44 Okay.

Michelle: 08:45 So she got me the plant, which I love. And then Kelly just got me a lot of like cute things that I would love, like a bath bomb and some face masks, chocolate

Brandi: 08:55 Some you time gifts

Michelle: 08:56 Me time gifts, which it speaks to my soul.

Brandi: 08:58 Good.

Michelle: 08:59 Um, and then you got me a handkerchief of La Llorona. Oh my gosh. La Llorona as well as like a sticker and La Llorona just so you, the public knows is a

Brandi: 09:10 Around here.

Michelle: 09:11 She’s kind of like a celebrity in terms of everyone knows her

Brandi: 09:16 It’s like a ghost story.

Michelle: 09:17 Yeah so.

Brandi: 09:18 Like a local ghost. Local-ish

Michelle: 09:18 She’s called the the English name for her as the ditch witch and um, the sticker is awesome. Maybe I’ll post a picture of it on my Instagram if you want to see it. Um

Brandi: 09:29 Oops, I just went to push up my glasses and they’re not there.

Michelle: 09:31 That’s really funny to watch. Oh my gosh. Um, so yeah, the law you go to on a, she, the legend goes that she pushed her kids into a river and then was overcome with guilt and shame and obviously like

Brandi: 09:50 Not just push them in like, like she drowned them

Michelle: 09:52 She drowned her children and she was just really, really like heartbroken by her decision. And so she was crying and looking for them. And the legend goes that she looked for them until she was gone. And to this day you can hear her crying sometimes

Brandi: 10:05 And wondering the ditch

Michelle: 10:06 And wandering looking for her kids. So it’s a little dark

Brandi: 10:09 Yeah

Michelle: 10:10 But La Llorona, a movie just came out about it.

Brandi: 10:12 A Llorona is also a cry baby.

Michelle: 10:13 Oh, Llorona is, oh, I don’t even know Spanish.

Brandi: 10:15 So that’s why I got it for you. Cause you’re a crybaby

Michelle: 10:18 And it’s perfect. And I had now have a handkerchief from my tears. If only I’d had that at pre k, the pre k graduation today.

Brandi: 10:26 I was like two hours too late

Michelle: 10:27 I know, I was like, all my tears are gone. I’ve got no tears left to cry.

Brandi: 10:31 That’s, it’s not true. I saw them.

Michelle: 10:32 I know, I know. Seriously. So that’s my week. But to go into that, my song for this week is an Oldie but a goodie.

Brandi: 10:40 Michelle’s in charge of music and we’re recording cause my phone is recording.

Michelle: 10:44 That makes sense. Um, so hopefully you enjoy it. I’m going to turn this up. I don’t know how you do this so smoothly. Um,

Brandi: 10:51 Three years of practice girl.

Michelle: 10:52 I know, right? Oldie but a goodie. It’s Third Eye Blind, Graduate.

Michelle: 11:53 You’ve gotta teach me your ways of getting rid of the song, fading it out. So if you don’t know that song, um, welcome to the nineties 97. That’s off of their self titled Album. Third Eye Blind

Brandi: 12:03 That song like gives me the goosebumps.

Michelle: 12:05 The goosies

Brandi: 12:07 The goosies. For those of you who didn’t get all our in-between talk watch the video.

Michelle: 12:15 Yeah. Um, so I just, I just loved that song

Brandi: 12:17 You forgot about it though.

Michelle: 12:18 I did.

Brandi: 12:19 I was singing it

Michelle: 12:19 Yeah I know. I was like wow. Pre K Mitch, they missed out on like a really good opportunity.

Brandi: 12:24 Cuz what was the thing, they changed a little song for the end. What was the song?

Michelle: 12:27 Um, throw my hands up in the air tonight, singing A O. Wanna let or wait or no

Brandi: 12:33 Come on let’s go

Michelle: 12:34 Come on, let’s go. And then they say, um, I want us to celebrate and graduate, and they’d have like little dance moves and then you saying, um, can I graduate? And I was like, they missed out on that solid opportunity.

Brandi: 12:50 They did

Michelle: 12:50 As a mom who grew up

Brandi: 12:51 Instead of just changing the lyrics

Michelle: 12:53 In the 90

Brandi: 12:53 They just had one that already said graduate in it.

Michelle: 12:55 And I look at all of those. I know. Just you can only say that line honestly. Um

Brandi: 13:00 That’s true. That’s legitimate

Michelle: 13:02 Um, but like as all of those teachers, I look at all these teachers and I was like, you, I know you all grew up in the 90s. What, what are you doing up there? So

Brandi: 13:12 Trying to be appropriate. Gosh

Michelle: 13:14 I guess although I had this one really fun memory of, um, speaking of trying to be appropriate and failing, um, we used to go, you and I used to attend these proms, um, there for the radio station that we both worked for.

Brandi: 13:29 They were like, they were like proms for like homeschool kids or kids that maybe went to Christian schools that didn’t have prom.

Michelle: 13:36 Yes

Brandi: 13:36 So it was like an alternative prom

Michelle: 13:38 An alternative prom. Um, and it was tons of fun and we had one of our friends, she was all, she was like interning at the radio station, put together a playlist. Um, no one checked the playlist

Brandi: 13:49 I remember this now

Michelle: 13:50 No one checked the playlist and then semi a jumper comes on, is it jumper?

Brandi: 13:58 I don’t remember which song, I just did it happen it happening

Michelle: 14:01 Semi-Charmed Life

Brandi: 14:01 Semi-Charmed Life

Michelle: 14:02 Um, comes on and I’m like, Oh, I love this song. And then like were like singing along and I’m just like, these lyrics aren’t appropriate. And then I look over at one of the other DJs and he’s just like, “NOOOOO!!!!!”

Brandi: 14:12 Slow motion. “TURN IT OFF”

Michelle: 14:14 And he’s just, and it’s just like, there are some things in here that we can’t, what happened? And it was just like the next song was on so fast after that. And I was like, Dang it, I really liked that song.

Brandi: 14:26 I know.

Michelle: 14:27 And it’s like, it’s not even like a dancey song. It’s just a song that everyone can sing along to because they know the do do as part.

Brandi: 14:33 Right.

Michelle: 14:34 That’s it. But it’s just like mmmm, not appropriate.

Brandi: 14:39 Yeah. It was like my favorite song when I was like 15 and probably hadn’t any idea what, like the majority of it was actually about.

Michelle: 14:46 So good. That’s my week. How about yours?

Brandi: 14:50 Oh, look at you and your calm radio voice.

Michelle: 14:52 We have eight minutes to get through your week.

Brandi: 14:55 Okay. Boy, no pressure. I know since I’m the one that usually likes to talk. Um, so I worked on my website a bit. Um, part of this was, um, it’s, I think I’ve talked about a little bit. It’s necessary because it keeps breaking on me. So I’ve been working on Squarespace. Um, the hardest part about this for me at this point is trying to figure out like what I want the goal of it to be. Um, because like

Michelle: 15:19 The why

Brandi: 15:20 The why is so important. So it’s, I, I’ve been following Donald Miller for a long time. He has. Um, he has this thing called StoryBrand. It’s like a marketing, um, thing. He’s an author. He, he wrote some books awhile back like called Blue like Jazz and Scary Close, um, which are amazing books, but his whole thing is aligns with mine. My, my thinking very well because he’s an author with a marketing platform. So he brings that in and calls his marketing platform story brand because your brand needs to have a story. And so I’ve been trying to work through some of his videos and trying to figure out what my like I know what I do, I know what I sell and I’ve just been trying to work through a bunch of stuff. So what I finally came up with is going to be like on the first, what they call above the fold on the website is going to say

Michelle: 16:11 Is that that little top part?

Brandi: 16:13 Yeah. The first part that you see when you come on a website is a take the guesswork out of the design process.

Michelle: 16:18 Like it

Brandi: 16:19 That’s what I do.

Michelle: 16:20 Catchy.

Brandi: 16:20 Yeah.

Michelle: 16:21 Yeah.

Brandi: 16:21 So it, and it applies to what I do, um, on the podcast because we talked about process here. Um, it applies to how I work with a client. So I’m going to help you take the guesswork out of the design process. So you leave all that stuff up to me basically. So it works on double and when I start putting out like courses and products, they will, all the things that I have will contribute to taking the guesswork out of your design process.

Michelle: 16:46 Love it.

Brandi: 16:46 So it like works on all the levels that they need it too. So don’t working on that. Um, something really cool. I’m going to, I’m going to try and do this from now on to try and like bring a cool like design story or news or something. Um, this two weeks ago I’ve been saving this one out because we didn’t have time last time, but I listened to Shakespeare Folger library, Shakespeare, Folger Shakespeare Library podcast.

Michelle: 17:10 Okay.

Brandi: 17:11 And a couple of weeks ago they had an episode about this. Um, it’s the Commonwealth Shakespeare Company is doing VR Shakespeare performances.

Michelle: 17:21 That’s so weird.

Brandi: 17:22 So yeah. So

Michelle: 17:23 I can’t imagine it

Brandi: 17:24 Check out the podcast. It’s, it’s, I think it’s just called VR Shakespeare, VR Hamlet or something. They do Hamlet and they do a really good job of,

Michelle: 17:33 I want to hear that

Brandi: 17:33 Of explaining something that’s visually a thing on a podcast

Michelle: 17:39 that’s so cool

Brandi: 17:40 Um,

Michelle: 17:40 Oh you

Brandi: 17:41 So cool.

Michelle: 17:41 You know what that reminds me of really, really fast. Jimmy Fallon just played that on played, a different version of charades on his show with Amy Poehler where instead of like acting out what they are doing for charades, they had to like strap their arms down and they had to just shout what they would be doing at each other to like, like I will be, I would be moving my hands up and down and wiggling my hips. So I would be holding three fingers in the air. Okay. Three words.

Brandi: 18:10 It’s not quite that entertaining, but it’s similar. It’s similar.

Michelle: 18:13 It reminds me that.

Brandi: 18:14 Yeah, it’s really cool. So um, check that out.

Michelle: 18:17 That’s like really cool.

Brandi: 18:18 It’s really interesting. Really cool. I listened to the episode twice, but just because I wanted to like

Michelle: 18:22 Do that on my way home

Brandi: 18:22 Really get into what that was about. Um, also Facebook, have you noticed that Facebook’s mobile mobile APP looks different?

Michelle: 18:31 Yeah

Brandi: 18:31 Can you tell what, what they did?

Michelle: 18:33 They moved where I see my messages

Brandi: 18:36 They took away the blue bar on top.

Michelle: 18:37 It looks nice.

Brandi: 18:39 So it’s clean.

Michelle: 18:40 It feels better.

Brandi: 18:41 Yeah. So, um,

Michelle: 18:43 The blue bar was dumb. You’re right.

Brandi: 18:44 Yeah. So I noticed, I noticed it and then I also listened to, so I’ll put a bunch of links because, um, I want everybody to be able to find these things that I do. Um, I also, um, listen to the Design Observer podcast. Um, and they were talking about this redesign and apparently they’re trying it out first on the mobile and then they’re going to transition it everywhere else. And um, apparently Mark Zuckerberg is blue, green, colorblind, and that’s why they use blue. Even though, even though blue is also like big in the tech industry and it’s for trust and you know, all the stuff that goes along with it

Michelle: 19:20 But it also helps him

Brandi: 19:21 It also helps him.

Michelle: 19:22 That’s an interesting, which is something we want to talk about

Brandi: 19:24 And we need to do a lot more planning. So maybe like in the early hundreds, like

Michelle: 19:28 I’d say so

Brandi: 19:29 Yeah

Michelle: 19:30 I’d say so because it’s something I’m like, this is like a conversation we could have for hours. So

Brandi: 19:35 Yeah, it is, yeah. So, um, so that was interesting. So just been thinking a lot about like the thought behind why they would take that bar away and um, the clean look of it and the something that they talked about. Um, so this is Jessica Helfand and Michael Beirut, they’re too big design folks. Um, that’s their podcast, the Design Observer podcasts. What they were thinking was that, um, a lot of people are blaming this was all this their theory, but I thought it was really cool. So I wanted to bring it. Um, a lot of people blame Facebook, um, for the content on Facebook. Right. Even though it’s just a medium.

Michelle: 20:10 Yeah, it’s not, yeah, that doesn’t make any sense.

Brandi: 20:12 So what their thinking is, I wonder, they said, I wonder if part of this is by taking away the blue bar and just barely having a logo up there, it leaves people to have to own the content that they post.

Michelle: 20:23 That makes so much sense.

Brandi: 20:25 Like, no, this isn’t us. This is your stuff guys.

Michelle: 20:28 This is on you

Brandi: 20:29 And I was like, oh, I don’t know if that was their thing. Like maybe they didn’t think that deeply about it, but that’s a great theory.

Michelle: 20:34 Yeah.

Brandi: 20:35 So, um, yeah. And then a Mother’s Day too was busy. I painted, sorry, I keep whacking it. That’s okay. I’m working the computer screen. Fine. Fine. Sorry, Michelle, you can’t see. I need a, um, uh, I painted, which my husband, you know, in 30 minutes through together for Wood easels, like no big deal

Michelle: 20:55 Rolling my eyes. Kelly be like, yeah, I can do that. In about three years

Brandi: 21:02 Kenny was like, so I don’t know what you want to do for Mother’s Day. And I just wanted to chill out. I was thinking, um, I have some extra, what I was thinking just making some wood easels. It’ll take me like 30 minutes. I was like, okay. And he did

Michelle: 21:13 With like a hammer and some nails

Brandi: 21:14 And I got a blotchy tan on my leg because I sat out in the sun for four hours

Michelle: 21:18 Like a Cheetah girl

Brandi: 21:19 With hole-y jeans. Um, yeah. Um, I’ve been listening to the song I wanted to bring probably before, I don’t know, two or three summers in a row and I don’t know how, I haven’t brought it yet, but it’s a really fun song. It’s a by, Oh, I’m looking for my phone as I so used to doing it. It’s by a band called Phoenix and it’s called Lisztomania.

Brandi: 22:45 So it’s fun.

Michelle: 22:46 Yes.

Brandi: 22:47 It’s upbeat. It’s Summer-y. Every time when I hear it in the winter, I’m like, no, it’s not time. There’s not time. Phoenix

Michelle: 22:53 Not now.

Brandi: 22:53 Um, but the really fun thing about this song for me, more than just like, I really don’t care that much about the lyrics except that at first, I thought it was list-o-mania, like I make a lot of lists and I was like, that sounds like me. This is my song.

Michelle: 23:07 That’s my song

Brandi: 23:09 Except I looked it up and it’s L I. S. Z. T. O. M. A. N. I. A. Um, so I looked it up on Wikipedia

Michelle: 23:17 That’ll help Joel, Joel, Joelle, Gosh,

Brandi: 23:19 Who are you today?

Michelle: 23:19 I’ve got too many people in my life named Joel and Joelle. That’ll help Joelle later.

Brandi: 23:25 Yeah. It will. So I’m just going to read the Wikipedia definition because it’s really fun. Um, “Lisztomania or Liszt fever was the intense fan frenzy directed towards Hungarian composer Franz Liszt during his performances. This frenzy first occurred in Berlin and the term was later coined, blah, blah, blah. He wrote something. Um, it was characterized by intense levels of hysteria, demonstrated by fans, akin to the treatment of celebrity musicians like Beatlemania today.

Michelle: 23:51 Oh my gosh. It’s perfect.

Brandi: 23:53 Like, that’s so great.

Michelle: 23:55 That’s so cool

Brandi: 23:56 Look at him. Oh, go back to the picture. I’ll have to, maybe that was the picture. He’s like pretty good looking, so maybe they just all had a crush on him I don’t know

Michelle: 24:03 Those high cheekbones.

Brandi: 24:04 I mean it’s a, it’s a sketch, so who knows

Michelle: 24:07 Who knows. They could have, they could have accentuated things that they wished. You never know. That’s really interesting.

Brandi: 24:13 Yeah. So

Michelle: 24:14 Good on you for looking up the title

Brandi: 24:16 Well, I just was like, what does that mean?

Michelle: 24:18 Well, and then what are the actual lyrics to this song?

Brandi: 24:21 I don’t know, they’re kind of goofy. It’s sort of nonsensical to me.

Michelle: 24:24 So sentimental notes, not some mental sentimental, no. Romantic, not discussing it. Darley, I’m down in lonely when we’re the fortunate only. Okay.

Brandi: 24:32 Yeah, it doesn’t, it doesn’t even really make sense to me, to be honest with you.

Michelle: 24:36 I feel like, I feel like a robot wrote these lyrics

Brandi: 24:41 Like those AI things that they’re like make music robot

Michelle: 24:44 Lisztomania, think less, but see it grow like a riot. Like a riot. Oh, not easily offended. Know how to let it go from the mess to the masses.

Brandi: 24:50 Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t what that has to

Michelle: 24:53 That’s too deep for me.

Brandi: 24:54 I know, I’m like, I guess, um, I don’t have my deep poetry, my brain on today or something.

Michelle: 24:58 Especially not today.

Brandi: 25:02 So. All right. Did we make it in time? Was that eight-minute?

Michelle: 25:04 No, it was 10 minutes, but that’s okay.

Brandi: 25:06 Okay, well you can edit something down.

Michelle: 25:08 You know what, maybe I will. Maybe I won’t. We’ll see. Um,

Brandi: 25:11 We’ll see how tired you are when you’re editing in a couple of days or whatever.

Michelle: 25:15 Hopefully, it’d be nice if I got to that tonight, but I don’t know.

Brandi: 25:17 But you’re going to baseball games

Michelle: 25:18 So probably not tonight, especially in the sun. Um, but on this episode, as I said earlier, we’re talking about the reason for why, the reason behind why, why to ask it, the power of why, why should we ask why?

Brandi: 25:35 Okay. So um, questioning your decisions tests your motives, um, and when you’re, when you’re doing creative work, um, problem, creative problem-solving. Um, I wouldn’t say that this, this applies to the kind of creative work like painting or anything where you’re just kind of going with the flow. Um, you don’t necessarily have to have a reason for that, but similar to even just redesigning my website. Um, to be honest with you, I ask why all the time. But because I’m not a web designer, the last three websites I’ve done, I’ve not asked why. I’ve just been like functionality. I just need it to have a portfolio. I need it to have this, this, this. But I haven’t, I haven’t told a story I haven’t asked why do I want this on here? Why do I want this above the fold? I just was like, here, this looks fine. Blah.

Michelle: 26:25 Yeah, sure. But then you just talked about Facebook and how they got rid of the blue, but why they had the blue, in the beginning, were reasons that we know, but also we don’t know like Mark Zuckerberg being blue and green, colorblind.

Brandi: 26:38 Right. So basically asking why allows you to have a backbone to understanding what you’re doing.

Michelle: 26:46 That’s such a good way to put it.

Brandi: 26:47 Yeah.

Michelle: 26:48 Backbone.

Brandi: 26:49 I don’t know where that came from.

Michelle: 26:50 I like it. Your mind

Brandi: 26:51 My brain

Michelle: 26:52 Your brain

Brandi: 26:52 All the words. Um, so once we know what it is though, that then it also allows us to be able to explain it to other people. But we can’t tell other people why if we don’t know why.

Michelle: 27:04 Hm.

Brandi: 27:04 So that makes

Michelle: 27:06 Logic

Brandi: 27:06 That’s logic. So there’s a lot of areas, um, that can be a lot more fulfilling just by asking why as designers, but even in our own lives, like, why do I want to put this on the wall? Or, um, why do I want to wear these shoes today? Or whatever. You know, it’s asking why just getting into the habit of asking why about a lot of things. Um, will ultimately, like make you just a smarter person.

Michelle: 27:30 Yes. So you’re kind of talking about that now and you just said that you ask yourself why a lot, but when are the absolute most important times to ask why?

Brandi: 27:42 Um, so asking why is, is going to come into play basically at every stage in the process. So for those of you who have, um, this is maybe your first episode, um, we did a whole a whole series on the process and my process and how many, it was like seven episodes? Something?

Michelle: 28:00 I think six episode that back back in the nineties

Brandi: 28:05 Back in the nineties

Michelle: 28:06 Back in the eighties

Brandi: 28:06 Hey they nineties are so great we put the process into them.

Michelle: 28:08 You’re welcome. So just go back a few episodes and you’ll see all of them there

Brandi: 28:12 And you can go on my website too and just search process, um, and you’ll be able to find them. But basically from the very beginning, um, the first why is going to be in the client brief, I think where you’re asking him like, what is it you need and why? Like why do you think you need to rebrand or why do you need, um, a poster or like what is the purpose? So the why in that stage is for the purpose of it. And as you go on, you’re going to need to ask, you know, why are you choosing certain typefaces? Why are you choosing certain colors? Why are you putting this in the upper left-hand corner instead of the upper right-hand corner? Um, when you’re planning your hierarchy, why am I putting this first, this second? Like why needs to be there at every stage?

Michelle: 28:57 Do you find yourself forgetting to ask yourself why? Because you’ve done those types of things for so long. Like choosing a typeface. Like you’re like, obviously I’m going to choose something like this.

Brandi: 29:09 Yes and no. Um, yes and that’s why I always use the process and I always keep my stuff nearby because I can often go, oh, “I think this typeface will look really cool”. And um, I’ve talked before about having educated intuition and I think we could probably do a whole episode on educated intuition. Write that down

Michelle: 29:28 Gotta write it down

Brandi: 29:30 Um, but basically I, I, I have been doing this for closer to 20 years, then 10 years. It’s like, I don’t know, 17 years or something. And I have well-educated my design intuition, so I could very likely choose a typeface that’s going to work and have reasons for it without asking why. And without looking at my brief and without looking at my, my, my word map. But

Michelle: 29:57 That doesn’t keep you sharp.

Brandi: 29:58 No it doesn’t. So when I did, when I did the Hemingway book cover design, I kept going back to, I had actually chosen a different font for um, the, the title of the book A Moveable Feast. And it was a serif font, which I had planned on. It was similar to what I wanted and I could have left it. But when I went back to my brief and I went back to all the words that came along with planning that, um, it went back to literature and writing and author and things from that time. And so then I was like, oh, I need to change this typeface up a bit and go find one that’s similar to a typeface they would have used at that time.

Michelle: 30:39 Okay.

Brandi: 30:39 So then I went and changed for, to a different sans serif if that was similar, but it was called paperback and it was a little bit closer to the why of my design.

Michelle: 30:48 That makes sense.

Brandi: 30:48 So I see you can do it, but will it ultimately be like the best you can do?

Michelle: 30:54 The best decision?

Brandi: 30:54 Probably not.

Michelle: 30:55 Can you, can you personally, this is like a you question. Can you tell when you’re looking at someone at a design that they, they didn’t ask themselves why? For every bit of the piece.

Brandi: 31:07 Yeah, absolutely.

Michelle: 31:08 That’s because of design intuition.

Brandi: 31:10 It’s, well, I wouldn’t say that part that the intuition is more when it comes to making decisions. Intuition is for decision making. Um, being able to look at a design and see where people didn’t have reasoning and didn’t ask why just comes from, um, comes from experience. Um, when I would, when I would grade portfolios or when I, when I look at student work or even other other designers work, I could go, okay, but that doesn’t make any sense.

Michelle: 31:42 Like like something’s throwing you off.

Brandi: 31:44 Yeah. Even if, even if I don’t, even if I don’t have any clue as to what their problem was or whatever, it’s like, okay, I can see that this actually doesn’t feel like one of these things is not like the other.

Michelle: 31:56 Okay.

Brandi: 31:56 Or whatever. It’s like, this doesn’t work here. And can you tell me? And that’s usually where I’ll go, Hey Michelle, I see how these, you know, I see how these things are working here on this CD cover. Um, I know this band’s music. Can you tell me why you chose to put this red flower in the corner?

Michelle: 32:14 And chances are they’re not going to have a why. They’re like, it just looks pretty.

Brandi: 32:17 And I have a really amazing BS-O-Meter for design. I’m like, go ahead, keep talking.

Michelle: 32:23 [uh huh] yeah

Brandi: 32:24 Sure. That was why

Michelle: 32:25 I believe you.

Brandi: 32:26 And so then on the, okay, so, but you know that red is for passion and all the things that go along with red is, you know, and they’re like crickets, crickets. So I would say that I can tell why more by talking to them and I can tell if they’re if they’re trying to just pull it out of nowhere.

Michelle: 32:47 Yeah.

Brandi: 32:47 Because no, you can only do so much with that, if you

Michelle: 32:51 That makes sense.

Brandi: 32:52 Yeah. Um, so that is, that is part of that

Michelle: 32:56 When to ask why always, because it’s beneficial to you.

Brandi: 32:58 Yeah. The answers to your why should also make sense so to you

Michelle: 33:04 That that just sounds like logical. But what you have, I guess it’s, I guess it’s not, I guess it’s not like a given if that makes sense.

Brandi: 33:15 Yeah. Well, and it has to make sense with something other than your feelings. So it has to have a logical non-feeling related answer

Michelle: 33:23 Scientific science

Brandi: 33:25 Kind of its design science kind of like, you know,

Michelle: 33:28 It’s a math problem. Figure it out.

Brandi: 33:29 Yeah. And you’re in a way because if you’re saying like like we’ve talked about a million times, I chose this, that or the other because it just felt right. And it’s not because of your design intuition, it’s just because of your preference or you were lazy or whatever the case may be. It can, your reasoning can’t be because you liked it.

Michelle: 33:49 Okay. So then how do you ask why,

Brandi: 33:53 How do you ask why you, you ask it based on your problem. So last, last episode we talked about, um, the complacent, the lazy, all that stuff and going through those questions when you say, okay, well, does it serve my audience? Does it appeal to my audience? Is it legible? Is it communicating the message? Is it, does it have a clear ask? Whatever your problem, you ask the why in relation to those things. Why did I do this? Oh, your answer should be because it appeals to a 40 to 60-year-olds.

Michelle: 34:28 I feel like how we, how wing

Brandi: 34:30 “how-ing”?

Michelle: 34:30 How to ask why. Yeah. “how-ing”. I like that. Um,

Brandi: 34:36 how-ing. What was the other word? Enjoyful.

Michelle: 34:38 Enjoy-full. How-ing. Um, how to ask why could be like in another episode. Like just because it seems like there’s a whole other outline to it.

Brandi: 34:47 Yeah.

Michelle: 34:47 Um, because that’s just, that’s part of your process at that point. How to ask why is another like, well, you need to do this. And you need to

Brandi: 34:55 It is

Michelle: 34:55 Go into this part of it, the section and do these things.

Brandi: 34:59 Right. And if, if you know how to ask why of your own of yourself, ask yourself why. Um, it will make you better at asking other people why, which if you are out there and you have any desire to be a creative director or an art director in any way, this is a skill that you have got to get good at because you have to be able to ask in a way that is, is a open-ended. It’s sort of like when our kids get home from school and we’re like, you can go, how was your day? And they go, fine. And that’s the end. Or you can say, um, what I’ve gotten in the habit of doing. Who did you play with at lunch today? What did you have for lunch today? All of the open-ended things that require the other person to dialogue with you about their design

Michelle: 35:43 Man. Being a mom helps that so much.

Brandi: 35:46 It really does.

Michelle: 35:47 I’m, I mean, it’s still kind of a struggle because my daughter is just really like, how do I say, I don’t know the word for what, how, like how she

Brandi: 35:57 Ambivalent?

Michelle: 35:58 I don’t know. The, I don’t know the meaning of the word. Um, that’s a quote. Um, but no, she’s like, it’s like I’ll just be like, so what did you do today? Or like, who did you play with today? And she’d be like, no one, I played by myself.

Brandi: 36:13 Oh please.

Michelle: 36:15 And then she was like, look off in the distance and it takes her like 10 minutes to be like, oh, today Ariana Blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m like, oh, see you talked to someone today

Brandi: 36:22 So you weren’t a loner all day long in the corner by yourself.

Michelle: 36:25 Yeah. And, but she’ll like play it off. Like I didn’t have any fun and no one was there and I just, whatever. I’m just like drama queen. But that’s like that like teaches me how to ask why.

Brandi: 36:37 It does, it does. And I, I have a blog post about this and I printed it without the number, so I’ll have to get back to you on that later. But, um, basically I actually wrote “to put it simply, how to ask why means be like an obnoxious toddler. Keep asking why until you reduce your choices to the simplest answer you can come up with. So, you know, I don’t know about Dj, but Kaden, my son is, my daughter was never the why kid. She was never like, why this, why is the sky blue? Why are the clouds fluffy? Like she was not that kid. But Kaden is why everything?

Michelle: 37:13 Why are the clouds fluffy.

Brandi: 37:14 Why everything?

Michelle: 37:15 Cause that’s how God made them.

Brandi: 37:17 I know that’s the lazy answer, but science is a thing. But I don’t know the answer to that scientifically

Michelle: 37:22 Ask why

Brandi: 37:23 Ah yes. Number 60. Blog post number 60 guys, good job, Michelle.

Michelle: 37:27 Yep.

Brandi: 37:28 Uh, she’s a great copilot

Michelle: 37:29 It’s what I’m here for.

Brandi: 37:30 Um, so basically if you see a design and you, you, you put together something and you say, okay, why did I use green? Because Green is, you know, springy. Okay, why did you need springy? Okay, this then ask why until you can’t ask yourself why anymore. And the deeper you can go on, that gives more depth to your design and that, that is another thing that is something special that I think I do that not a lot of designers do when I talk about my work. That is one thing that sets me apart because I have deep reasoning for everything.

Michelle: 38:05 And another reason I think that you should ask why, not so other people can look at you or look at your work and say, wow, that’s good. I can tell she or he asked why. Um, but if it’s for you, so you can be proud of the work that you, the the hard work that you put into the final outcome of whatever your project.

Brandi: 38:24 And it basically makes it like foolproof, unquestionable for your reasoning. So if you can give people enough reasons for why you do something, they will buy into it as opposed to, I don’t know, I just thought it looked really cool. Then they can go, well, I don’t think it looks cool. Change this, that, and the other thing. Make the font bigger, like all the things they do. Um, so I have this example, um, if, if you’re, if you’re choosing a typeface and you, there’s, do you know what the typeface Gil Sans is? It’s just a

Michelle: 38:53 Sounds fishy. No, I don’t.

Brandi: 38:55 It’s a geometric sans serif.

Michelle: 38:57 Okay. Okay.

Brandi: 38:58 Font. So you would ask yourself, okay, why am I using Gil Sans? Because you wanted to San Serif. Why San Serif? Because you wanted something more classic and Independable. Why? Because those are words that your client associates with themselves. Why? Because they have been around for over 30 years owned by the same family. So see how that kind of like went down the rabbit hole of the typeface?

Michelle: 39:19 Yes. Also, Gill sans is just named after Eric Gil who created it.

Brandi: 39:24 There you go. Good job.

Michelle: 39:25 Has nothing to do with fish?

Brandi: 39:26 No. Oh, you were thinking gills. Oh, I’m, well, it sounds fishy. She’s trying to do a pun and I don’t understand I’m just gonna move on

Michelle: 39:36 So not, it just, he just was like, I made this up so I’m calling at me.

Brandi: 39:40 So this is like the good rabbit hole. I always talk about how so many things are terrible rabbit holes, like going into, um, to do your research on online

Michelle: 39:48 This is a good one

Brandi: 39:48 This is a good one. Continue to go down the rabbit hole of why. And I, I use so many Alice in Wonderland, things in my brain. It’s just the way it works.

Michelle: 39:56 I like it. I like it. Follow the white rabbit.

Brandi: 39:58 Yeah.

Michelle: 39:58 Um, also, Gill sans has been around since 1926. That’s pretty cool. That’s a minute for a minute. So just, okay I’m done with Gil sans.

Brandi: 40:10 That’s why it makes sense because they’re classic and dependable. They’ve been around a long time. So that’s how, and that’s another thing that I didn’t hit on enough, I don’t think in the process episodes is like choosing the typeface. So if you have those words like classic and dependable in your word map and that’s something you want to incorporate into your brand, you’ll need to look for typefaces that have been around a long time. You’re not going to go with one that they came out with just last week. That’s like this brand new interesting thing because it doesn’t work with the why.

Michelle: 40:43 I agree. Sorry

Brandi: 40:44 You were writing something

Michelle: 40:45 Yes, amen

Brandi: 40:45 It’s okay. I have more to say. I’ll let you write. Um, so designer intuition is a, is something that can develop over time. So the thing I just talked about, but asking why doesn’t leave the equation no matter how experienced you are. So, even though I’ve been doing this for close to 20 years, I will never stop asking why? Because it keeps me sharp. It keeps me from making bad decisions and it allows me to have a safety net to fall back on when clients or anyone else questions. The reasoning

Michelle: 41:18 And the reason it keeps you sharp is because you have to research.

Brandi: 41:21 Yeah.

Michelle: 41:21 It forces you to research.

Brandi: 41:22 It forces you to research. It’s also like

Michelle: 41:25 Which is part of your process.

Brandi: 41:27 It takes away the the like designers just do magic and make things pretty. It’s strategy.

Michelle: 41:32 Like I wish.

Brandi: 41:33 I know I wish this pen

Michelle: 41:36 Done like a fairy godmother over here with like a wand.

Brandi: 41:39 So we should be making strategic decisions. We should have reasons and you know, we could probably do 15 episodes on why and have them be about completely different things. Why in your brand, why, why on your website, why in your process? Um, you know, all the things

Michelle: 41:56 Which they might, but we won’t do that to you in a row

Brandi: 41:58 No, no, no, no, no. That’s a lot. I’ll just get tired of saying the word. Why give up on it altogether?

Michelle: 42:05 Brandi’s abandoned in the word, “why” makes headlines

Brandi: 42:09 Never going to happen, you guys, never going to happen. You know, it’s funny is, um, the two, two years ago, one of my graduating students, one that actually ended up winning a whole bunch of, um, Addy awards and thanked me on stage for them. I was like so honored

Michelle: 42:25 That so cool

Brandi: 42:25 But one of the things, one of the last week of school, um, he was like, I’m gonna make, I’m gonna make tee shirts for people that go through your classes. And I was like, okay. And he’s like, they’re just going to say why, dash, you know, said by Brandi Sea, like, I think that’s a compliment.

Michelle: 42:41 That’s really, it’s quoted.

Brandi: 42:42 Yeah. It’s quoted. Why

Michelle: 42:44 Question mark. And then it’s Brandi Sea.

Brandi: 42:46 Yup.

Michelle: 42:47 @Brandisea that’s really genius.

Brandi: 42:49 I know it never happened. Maybe I’ll just make it myself.

Michelle: 42:51 I like it. I like it a lot.

Brandi: 42:53 So, um, designers who operate from a place of why have plans and strategies and they know how to implement them. So if you don’t ask yourself why you should start, do it early, do it often. I feel like that’s something else. What are they, what else did they say? Like breast cancer awareness. Get scanned early and often.

Michelle: 43:11 Yeah, like I mammograms go get, this is your PSA

Brandi: 43:16 PSA. Ask why often and regularly and also

Michelle: 43:20 Go get your yearly

Brandi: 43:21 Screening.

Michelle: 43:22 Screening

Brandi: 43:22 Sure. Michelle, on that beautiful note, where can people find us?

Michelle: 43:27 Well, you can find us on all forms of social media, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter if you want, even though it’s kind of weird in a weird platform. Um, @brandisea go ahead and spell your name.

Brandi: 43:38 B. R. A. N. D. I. S. E. A.

Michelle: 43:38 You can also follow us on Instagram @designspeakspodcast and you can go check out our playlist on Spotify. If you love this show and you would like to support it, we would be so very honored if you did it. It helps us keep making episodes. Um, you can get to our Patreon. It’s PA Patreon.com/designspeaks. You can give one time, you can give monthly as little, as a dollar, as much as you want.

Brandi: 44:05 A dollar a month guys.

Michelle: 44:06 That’s like not a big deal.

Brandi: 44:08 It’s not, but it helps that dollar. Like it usually costs us a couple bucks to transcribe the show. So a couple of bucks helps us get that transcription out to you. Um, Brandi has monthly subscriptions to many monthly slash yearly subscriptions to things like we use Adobe Audition to record the podcast. I use it at home to edit it. That’s two separate subject subscriptions. Um, this costs money. It’s not free, but we love doing it, which is why we’re doing it. So if you’re able to help us out, we would be so very honored and eternally grateful

Brandi: 44:39 Eternally

Michelle: 44:40 Eternally grateful. Um, we can’t do it without you.

Brandi: 44:43 We’d be so enjoy-full

Michelle: 44:44 We’d be so in enjoy-full

Brandi: 44:46 We’d be full of enjoy-full. No, I don’t know. I don’t even know how to use that word.

Michelle: 44:49 We’d be enjoy-full. Um, just straight, straight across enjoy-full. Patreon.com/designspeaks. Uh, I am, uh, shout out to Joelle who transcribes this pro podcast and at it’s everything and is has to text us at like 10 o’clock at night to be like

Brandi: 45:07 How do you spell that font?

Michelle: 45:08 What is that? I don’t understand. And we’re just like, I’m just like, I don’t either Brandi.

Brandi: 45:12 What word did you say here? I don’t know. I’ll have to go listen.

Michelle: 45:14 Why would, why is new spelled so weird and

Brandi: 45:18 Neue

Michelle: 45:18 Neue. It’s like Albuquerque.

Brandi: 45:20 Yeah, it is.

Michelle: 45:21 Good luck.

Brandi: 45:22 Yeah.

Michelle: 45:22 And also a shout out to Colin from Vesperteen for allowing us to use his music Shatter in the Night as the intro and outro to our podcast and he’s having, he’s going to have new music

Brandi: 45:33 I was just about to say. Yep. So I’ll check them out again if you haven’t already.

Michelle: 45:36 He has announced that he’s signed to a really awesome label and they’re making him and making him there, helping him produce and create really awesome music that he is so excited for and I’m excited to hear. So

Brandi: 45:47 We are all excited.

Michelle: 45:48 Go check it out.