Thank You To

TRANSCRIPTION  of Epic Interview with the One and Only ANDY J PIZZA

00:00:06 – 00:05:02

Welcome to design speaks the podcast that helps you discover uncommon inspiration take control of your creativity and create work that gets noticed your host. Brandy see joining me is my co-host Julie Haider this week. We’re talking to and EJ Pizza about so many things that we can’t even put it down to a description stay tuned for that coming up later and the fountain hi, Julie. Hey Brandy, I’m a little bit excited about today. I know that you had a chance to listen to the conversation, but it has been such a really cool privilege for me on this podcast to be able to interview and may have real life conversations with like some of my creative Heroes. Yeah. So did you know about and EJ pizza before I mentioned him to you I didn’t yep. Will admit I’m a little out of touch with the design world since I don’t do as much design work anymore. Yeah, well to be fair. He’s not technically a designer. He is a illustrator off but he’s he’s the host of I think it’s the number one creative podcast on any platform. It’s called creative talk. Yeah, and he’s been doing it for about six years and I think I’ve probably been listening to him for most of that time at least five years that I can I can look back and he does one every week and his energy and his weirdness and the way he he just conducts himself on the podcast has always been a huge draw for me. So I know that you got two to listen into it and I hope that it wasn’t too bipolar because I was a little bit all over the place because I’m so excited. But what did you think overall of like the conversation? Yeah. I thought it was a great conversation and I could tell you’re having such a great job. Like you got to talk about so many of your favorite things. Yeah, and and you two had have a lot in common. Yeah, I think that that was probably the most fun and the most surprising for me off. So just as like a sidebar part of the I’ve been trying to get ahold of him to be on the podcast for probably two years and I just happened to hear that he is he mentioned that he’s next door neighbors to someone named Colin who has a band called vespertine that that they’re like next door neighbors on one of his podcast. I was like what in the world so I texted Colin who’s my friend? He’s the one that does the song for this podcast. Yeah, and I was like, hey is Andy Miller your next-door neighbor and he’s like, yeah, dude. We’re like really good friends and I was like, okay, so I’ve been trying to get ahold of him to be on my podcast for a long time. Can you like put a bug in his ear off? Oh not too long after that. I finally got a response from Andy and he was like, yeah. Sorry it took me so long. I just I don’t really check my Instagram messages that much and I was like, no problem. And so we already have like this Baseline of like a common friend and so besides that having all these other sort of elements in common how we approach work how we really think about literary themes and inspiration and stuff. Like that was just like I felt like I’ve known him forever. So yes, I hope you guys enjoy the episode and we will do a little recap after it’s done. So I I don’t know where to start. I’m not going to have you do your elevator pitch because I feel like people know who you are. And if they don’t I’m sure that they will get to know you hear over the course of this conversation. Sure. Yeah, that’s fine with me. So I have a number of things. I want to talk to you about everything from story to enroll. Station to process and music all things that that this podcast has revolved around since I started just so you get to know me a little bit. I’ve been I’ve been in the graphic design space back since twenty not twenty. What am I thinking 1999-2000 ish? Yeah. So 2001 is about where I really trusted doing it like as a profession and I have over the course of these years come to really realize that the way that people approach graphic design isn’t something that I was super fond of and so I was trying to think of like how I could approach it and teach it differently and really have come to shove that this idea that Your own voice comes from where you find inspiration in here and then infusing that through a process, you know, so that you still have strategy but you also have your own voice down.

00:05:02 – 00:10:02

So I guess I’d like to start with what are your what are your thoughts on? You know, I know you are a huge proponent of finding your creative voice. That’s not a true that is a big thing for you. But we’re we’re for you. Does that create a voice meet with the strategy involved with being a professional creative? Because I feel like some you know, it’s either it’s either one end of the spectrum or the other often than when I read em, I meet with designers. It’s like, oh, let’s all strategy and it’s all this and I you know, I lose my voice cuz I have to take on the voice of the client or it’s all the way over here. Like well, I do what I want and it doesn’t matter if they life and if they don’t will screw them and it’s like, okay, but there’s where do you where do you land on the middle ground? There’s been diagram here. Yeah. Yeah for real quick before I answer that what month? What was it about the way that you saw people approaching design that you did it drive with well one was that I was taught that I had to lose myself for the sake of the client which I did for about ten years like pretty solidly. The other thing was that was more on the client side and the employer side and on the fellow designer side. It’s been real fresh. It’s has been frustrating for me to see how little strategy is valued in the design space. So those two things primarily have really enjoyed me to where I am. And the probably the other major thing for me is so many designers just all sitting on dribble and Instagram and Pinterest and looking at everybody else’s stuff and making their version of everybody else’s stuff and I’m like there’s a better way. We are also uniquely who we are. Why are we not embracing this somehow? Yeah, I feel dead. In a it’s really interesting. I I think about this exact push and pull all the time. I’m think because it’s at correct me if I’m wrong, but I sat sounds like what you’re saying is on the client side. There’s the emphasis on strategy on problem solving on like let’s get to the result and then on the on the creative side or the designer side. There’s a there’s a real resistance to strategy or results or or you know to me I think of it like cuz you can think about it clients or audience whatever you want. Right? Right. There’s this huge push back from the creative side about I don’t I entered my audience like I don’t need their feedback. I got you know, and and you know, this is for me from me about me that you know this Essence thing and I think dead. You know you go. Yeah. Yeah, and I think it’s interesting because you know, I’m a big believer that any good lie is based on a truth. That’s the you know, that’s an idea and I definitely subscribe to and I think the truth is both of those things are real. Both of them are and that’s the weird thing is, you know, I’m a big girl was talking about non-dual thinking and that’s a big thing in my mind all the time. So I just I just wanted to kind of highlight this thing you’re talking about because I think it’s, you know, especially for Creative professionals. This is maybe the most significant hurdle to getting your best work in my opinion is that I think that there is a false dichotomy between strategy or or a solving a problem or or or delivering something that works for your end user being a client or or an audience, right? There’s that side and then the other side as being true to yourself off. Making stuff that resonates from you stuff that you know comes from your soul or whatever and I think that this is a we think that we we do this about everything. This is the idea of dual thinking we think everything two sides. That’s that doesn’t exist. It’s not in the world universities and places at once and it’s not only that it just there’s no way the universe and the and and everything is a binary like that. Nothing is nothing’s binary in in this universe just it is a complex and spectrum of things wage. And so anytime you get caught in a place where like is it should I have strategy or should I be exploring myself? You say? Yes. Yes, great. Yes to all of it. Yes to all of it back cuz you know in my my favorite, you know, I’m a huge student of stand-up comedy. Yeah. I’m a fan of it, but I honestly think they are the Dead. Current there on the edge of the the creative Mastery in a way that almost no one else I think in our culture and our time is and I think a big part of it is dead.

00:10:02 – 00:15:02

And so well a big part of it I think is that they have a clear Target so they know they’re going for Laughs if I say to an illustrator. What are you going for? Like 99.999% of generators? Like I don’t know. What is a good description. How do you hit that Target? It’s impossible. Right? But anyway to Target if you don’t know what it is exactly. So so yeah, what is going on? If you don’t have any definition of that you’re it’s going to be hard to be a good illustrator. But so Comics have this so they they have this rigorous process on how they get too great creative work and part of it is it’s not be true to yourself or or be, you know Pander to the audience. It is a it’s a narrative. It’s not yes or no, it’s dead. Always start with what’s true to you start there. And then from there go out and test your skill test. Did it work? She did you whatever’s funny about it to you. Were you able to transfer that to your audience? And if you didn’t you have to go back to the drawing board and so it’s it’s not either-or and I and I think this whole thing of like, well, it’s screw them. They didn’t get it. That’s just a way of hiding you’re not you’re afraid of being judged. You’re right, you’re afraid of being evaluated on whether it works. And I forget it. I’m afraid all the time like I this is a very scary thing to do put yourself out there and try to get a result. But yeah, I just wanted to speak to that cuz I think This is a this is the the myth that I think goes throughout and I think everybody feels like they have to take a side on which one’s the right one. Does that make sense? Yeah. No absolutely and totally agree and it’s it’s been a it’s been a process for me to learn how to I’ve recently shifted into being more of a creative coach and really marketing myself as that and not design strategist as opposed to quote unquote just a graphic designer. Yeah, because and it’s it’s funny how people even just like the average lay person’s reaction to you changes when you say I’m a design suggesting creative coach or if I say, I’m a graphic designer. It’s all of a sudden like it elevates what we do even though I know that I’m still working the same. I’ve always worked from a place of strategy my home. My journey has been really overcoming what I’ve been taught to lose my voice and really grabbing onto that again and and figuring out that like my weird is what makes me awesome and I’ve always known that but yep. Never really until the past like the past the second decade of my practice really owned that yeah in my own work as opposed to just as a human being like I’ll be the person, you know, either a blue wig just for the heck of it, but in my work it was very like buttoned up and it was like, okay, but where am I here? So speaking of like the journey I am very I always tell people I probably would have been an English major if I hadn’t gone into design and so the the hero’s journey I know is something that you are a huge fan of and I am as well and so forth. That’s another reason. I’m super giddy about this conversation cuz this is like a super Common Ground we have and I incorporate story and literary methods into how I design. I I teach something that uses the word map as a literal map to the strategy that you can use in your design process and using words and not even touching the computer until you’ve used words to a certain age. Well, and so I I don’t know that I’ve listened to tons of your episodes, but I don’t know that I’ve actually ever heard you talk about like what does the the hero’s journey off? What part does that play in your actual literal creative process or design process your illustrative process like from the time that you sit down to work or prepare to work at what does that look like for you? Yeah, that’s a good that’s a fantastic question. And I and I am I have so much to say on that and real the floor is yours off real quick. I was going to just say one thing. I wanted to just know because we squeaked we skimmed over this at the start and it’s just an interesting thing you you were saying and I’m sorry. I’m no sorry back on. I love this. It’s great. This is the feeling of you know, I like I like, you know wrestling with ideas. And so there’s this little thread That we didn’t pull that I just want to just quickly. I honestly love this because it always feels a little awkward for me when I interview people and it’s like okay they answered that question. That’s okay. That’s what I wish people would do. I wish I wish it was more like that more organic like that. They would just bring bring your full self bring your interests and friends do it because I threw that off all the way cuz I definitely want to get back to the hero’s journey.

00:15:02 – 00:20:08

But one thing that you said was, you know early on in your practice you felt like you had to design was about losing yourself in the client, like basically not having your fingerprints off. Or whatever and I and again another false dichotomy of there’s people on both sides of the aisle on this thing people that are like design is not about you. It’s not about your style. It’s not about your voice. It’s it it’s about the client and what they want and they’re in style as you know, there’s people I can’t remember there’s there’s like big-time graphic design, you know, the Godfather that that were dead. Would you know just crap on the big Shadow over all of us? Yeah. Yes. And and I and I think again, this is a I think the most important thing a thing I wanted to highlight and the reason I brought it back to this was I think it’s it’s less about which one is right and I think it’s more about starting with your particular sensibility, which is another way of saying your particular taste is the idea that for the and that’s where I think this dichotomy comes from or this this binary comes from there’s just you know, these are different sensibilities. These are this and the thing is the most important thing I think early on in our career. We almost always gravitate towards what we’re not and what we feel like we should we have a we have a we we’re velcro two things that were sensitive about like the things that we know we’re not we’re like, oh man that got me like I I want to put myself. Russian in the work and that’s not right like so we we cling to that stuff and those kind of critiques. We just like gravity. It’s like, you know tractor beam and so we spend a lot of people they spell the first leg of their Journey trying to be what they’re not right? Because that those are the things that we we we dwell on and in the truth is wage, that’s really to your creative detriment because in my opinion, the only thing that you have as a Creator is your sensibility it is you’re right it is this metal detector in you off its before you ever get to your skill. It’s what is your what can you sense like and so for some creators some designers the thing that really does it for them and it is beyond style. It’s some other metric at some other thing that’s lighting up that taste right and so for them, that’s the metal detector they found So they can go in that they can explore that and they have that internal thing that says oh, this is good. That’s bad this you know, that’s how that’s what’s going to lead their intuition and making decisions. But for those of us who like for me since day one, it’s always been style and in in in a an artist with a very distinct sensibility all the way back to when I was a kid, you know obsessed with Jim Henson and the Muppets and Fraggle Rock and all that stuff. He has a such a clear sensibility and I and and that’s what my metal detector is calibrated for. So when I try to go into a place where I you know style agnostic, I can’t create from that place because if you don’t if you don’t have a that inner metal detector calibrated, you don’t know what’s good. You can’t make choices and so everything has to come from that place. So I would always say doesn’t matter if you if you want to be style heavy or not just wage. Sure that it’s your taste that you’re working from does that make sense know totally and I I I call it uncommon inspiration because you know what you and I could be sitting down the exact exact same space and working on the exact same project for the exact same client with the exact same box to work within but because you and I are uniquely uncommonly inspired by something completely different in that case. We’re going to approach that work from a completely different point of view. And so yeah, I one hundred percent agree with that and then I think it’s with your option. It starts with like cuz I would go sit in the car and we’d be crazy in high school with my buddy Kyle. We’d listen to a song. Both of us would be like, well this sounds amazing and then he would he’d be like, oh man, it’s the bass man and I’m like, I didn’t even hear the bass cuz bass any, you know, I don’t have that sensitivity and you’ve got that’s where you’ve got to come from and quit worrying about which one’s the right choice. And yeah, and and yeah playing and educating your home. Intuition educating your intuition because if you’re I think there’s a lot of there’s a lot of designers that are like, well, I’m just doing it just cuz it feels right and I’m like, okay, but does it feel right because you just decided or does it feel right? Because you’ve educated yourself on principles and theories and approaches to this work and so you’re educated. So you’re making choices based on things that are actually real or just based on like your feelings which are so you know up and down and all over the place.

00:20:08 – 00:25:01

I agree with that and I think it can work the other day where you study your you know, I was interviewing this podcaster in in public radio host and she was saying as she’s creating a nice looking for stories when she’s asking questions when she’s editing in the in the editing Booth. She’s listening to her body. She’s listening to when does the the internal buzzer go off like dead? I need to move that or that you know, if I switched all that stuff, but the thing is is I think again back to Comedy. I feel like it’s just cleaner to use that for me off. I think you have kind of three stages. You have people that are all in their feelings. They can’t explain it. They can’t and therefore they can’t they don’t command it. It’s it’s it’s a way more out of their control. Then you have the second stage people are all in the mechanics of it and at some point they forget to listen to their body and then there’s the people that move through both listen to their body down the mechanics forgetting the mechanics and then just doing it from there. But if you said my memory, yes, yeah exactly. Yeah, that’s good. That’s good stuff. Okay Heroes. Yeah, let’s do it. Oh gosh my cat my my son just his fall in love with the Muppets and over Florentine like watching off. All the movies all the movies. Yeah. It’s important to me. I I’m crazy about it. And did you watch fraggles growing up at all? Oh my gosh, you kidding travels was the fraggles is the Pinnacle of creative. We like the same age. Pretty I’m thirty-four. Okay, so I’m older. Yeah, I think actually I was I think because I took her sibling that I got introduced to stuff earlier and so I’m a little bit I feel like my taste and and is a little bit less than a little elevated because I always think about not elevated Nova. It’s just like older because a lot of my favorite things were like earlier eighties, but I wasn’t even alive then and I think it’s just kind of that’s like a got a bit older brother. Yes mam. Okay, hero’s journey. Sorry. I was just sidetracked now a little guys in your background. I got a lot of puppets and stuff. Yeah. I got fraggles up there and I love the Fredo all my yes. Oh my faith. Things and then me as a puppet which my my audience the universe aligned on that one look at it. Okay, if that’s just me. Interesting. I think I don’t think he’s looking at it but it’s great. I love it. It’s a little bit freaky. Yeah, so so let’s talk about Carol Journey. Let’s talk your project. Okay hero’s journey. So here’s Journey as it’s something I’m using all the time. I don’t think you know, it’s kind of like one of those things of how the sausage is made kind of thing. Like you don’t not every it’s not that enjoyable to be like and this is how I did it. You’re like, oh and I think so when I woke up doing talks whenever in an often when I’m doing podcasts, I’m usually starting with that as a story structure and and and and I just dead. You know, I’m just getting into writing kids books, but I and I’ve tried to ride them for a long time, but the I just finished writing one that I’m like really proud of like I I just love it. I don’t know if anybody else will like it but it for me. I’m happy. I’m already all I did was write it and I’m already done like I might this I love it. It’s fantastic. Any any snakes. It’s I’ll tell you it’s it’s mysterious. I can tell you I like it. Okay. I hope it’s not too scary. It’s not meant to be scary. It’s just a little mysterious life. Nicula WhatsApp. What does that? There’s a kids book called Bunnicula. It’s a it’s a bunny vampire. Oh, yeah. I know that. Yeah. Yeah. So I use the hero’s journey for that and and it’s really interesting to me because I don’t think everybody you don’t have a buddy who writes stories and he he just has it in an intuition about storytelling that wage. You know, that’s how he that’s how a story comes out of him. But for me, I’ve noticed and this is the same for everything for me. It always starts with a like a month. I really deep down idea like a premise or something. I’m trying to work out or a often. It’s starts with like a feeling and then I have like word for it.

00:25:01 – 00:30:04

And so this book is kind of like that where I was like, I know I know I want to have these kinds of things in it and then I know oh it’s about this sentence. This is the sentence it’s about and then I work back to well. How do we make how do we get to that in a satisfying way? And then then we start then I just created the a little-used Christopher vogler’s writing in a journal version of the hero’s journey and I put all the 12 Steps out and I just start filling it in and you know, that’s how I do my talks and that’s how I do podcasts. But then on top of that this is maybe more interesting than me just talking about, you know, boring mechanics. I I also use it as a framework for thinking about life and giving an placing myself and grounding myself and narrative. So I you know, that’s been a huge thing and I actually have a strong suspicion and I I’m sure I’m not the first person to think about this but you know, I’ve heard that like one Theory Of Consciousness is that off all we are the whole idea of like, I’m Andy what that is, you can’t point to it. There’s not it doesn’t exist in my brain. All it is is neurons telling a story that just like this is the story of Andy and and and I think that the reason the hero’s journey is so you that story is just story structure really is throughout all cultures of birth. Time isn’t because oh they found a clever thing that works on us. It’s just a this is a map of what’s inside of us. That’s how we you know, Christopher Vogler wage an example of like when your car breaks down you tell the hero’s journey like, oh, I I’m the hero I wanted to go get groceries. That was my desire was out there this what I wanted and then but the obstacle The Call to Adventure my car broke down, you know, and that this you just love that are that’s how our that’s that’s who we are. We are a story home. And so whenever you’re starting to get all wigged out about life and untethered and you’re looking at the news and you’re looking at your all that stuff and you feel like what the hell is the point, it’s just it’s chaos. That’s when I’ll go to hero’s journey and say well what part of the hero’s journey is chaos. Well, it’s this belly The Wailers the ordeal or it’s this or I’m needing the mentor. I need a plan off. Whatever it is. I can I can find that I instantly feel like okay and then you read the little section back. This is what the hero has to do when they’re in in the belly of the whale and I’ll go do that or Thursday. And so that’s yeah, that’s how it plays out in my everyday life. But I also you I Paul a lot of it visually from for illustration and then all my stories more or less I start there. Yeah, I’ll have I don’t think that I realized how much this played into like the process of how I design and how impactful it can be home to use to use that in a more formal process and kind of let your your creative voice weave in and out of that story. So it’s not like it comes in here and then here it’s like, okay well depending on who you are throughout this process your voice is your voice and your inspiration and your own internal, you know library of all the things that Jim. Have collected over the course of your life will sort of start popping into that Journey here and there and so I also have I also have this theory that I talked a lot about Alice in Wonderland is my absolute fave and my daughter’s name Dallas. Oh, my daughter was almost named Dallas ended up with Jasmine, but I like that is what it is. So easy I’ve over the course of like the past five years been thinking about this idea that it’s not about the rabbit for Alice. She thinks it’s about the rabbit. Right? But it’s really ultimately it’s about a journey and what she finds and who she meets and all the things that she learns along the way and so I’ve been trying to let that reflect in my own journey. And remember I even have them unless you could say this here. There’s a little flag over here that says Excellence with a rabbit on it and it’s just a remind me that like, it’s not about the rabbit. It’s not about that one goal that you think it’s about and so even in the course of disease. And you know any creative professional practice like remembering that it’s it’s about something much bigger than the one thing that you’re working on today so long, I don’t know where I was going with that. I love that. Can I I’ll just say something real quick about it. I I think about that a lot too and I always talk about it through the lens of Zelda breath of the wild which is oh my God damn and I that’s all my husband and my daughter did when they came out.

00:30:04 – 00:35:00

It’s that’s all it’s a masterpiece. I said this before Pete Holmes said this but he said to he’s like, I think this is the best thing ever made. I don’t think it’s the best video game. It’s just the best it is. I it’s amazing but sincere podcast and my daughter was like did he just talked about breath of the wild and I was like, yes, and it was every episode and watch it again. He talks about but I you know, I felt like that point was driven home for me when I went to go fight the bad guy on a whim cuz you can go at Birth. Ganon Ganon. Yes. Okay. Okay. I know that much. I don’t play but I heard enough and you can go to Gannon at any time in this game cuz it’s open world, which is unlike other jobs in the past right at some point. I was like, you know what I’m going to go just fight him but I thought I’m not even close to being ready. It’ll just be cool. I’ll just go check it out and then I beat him. And it ruined the game like I talked to your world why kept playing I kept playing and I was like, why is this not as fun like out because I caught the rabbit like cats because I and so there’s a thing of now like I was just telling you I just beat the game with your last night and I’ve almost equally obsessed do now it’s and I beat it and I’m like but this time through I did not Russia every time I got a whiff of like this could be the final quest. I was like, I’m going to find other side quests because I did not ready to be done with us. And so I I think that there’s there’s something about you know, how do you find the creative work that you just want to spend time doing and that and that was a huge that was a you know, when I was just talking about that kids book The Mysterious one that I’m really happy with that is a product of that lesson because five years ago six years ago. I was like, you know throwing pitches at my editor like what about that idea? What about this idea? And I know it was coming Frome. I said I need a kids book deal. Please get some people and I’m in this book. I took what I meant by saying. Oh, I’m done with it. I’m not done with it. I’m going to keep you know, I’m going to try to pitch it and do all that stuff off. But my favorite part of the process is over and no one’s even read it because I wrote that over a course of nine months just simmering. It’s just savoring like oh, what about that idea. What about this? What about you know, cuz I know this is this is why I want to make kids books like like the yes, that’s why not so that I can sell a book or a Caldecott or whatever. I like right? I like writing it. So yeah, I I love box. If there were two things that I could design for the rest of my life. It would be book covers. Yeah and like album art like those two things. I never get tired of doing those. There’s just so much there right I can play with you can play Other Side Bar cuz that’s what we’re doing here. Apparently today is dead. I’m here. I have I have a knack for like you reading into things that people don’t see otherwise off or like seeing one thing and going like that would make an awesome children’s book or whatever. So I am also just writing very Loosely a kids book over about something that I thought. I saw my son playing with a sharpener from the Golden Gate Bridge and a little Zone dragon that my daughter made for him and he put his he likes at it inside the gate bridge and I was just like that. So I totally get that and I’m not I wouldn’t even say that like, I’m an author but it was like there’s something here and I’ve been I’ve been happily playing with it. I mean you hardly many talking about the hero’s journey and stories and kids books and writing and all that. I’m not an author. Nobody’s let me be an author yet. I just this is what I like urine either when you write off. I think that’s true. I feel like one but nobody else agrees yet, but we’ll see. Well you mean writing is is whatever we write things for our podcast everyday I do so that’s how you doing. I’m waiting for someone to be like, hey, man, you’re a writer my job and writing this podcast six years someone you notice but will say yes. Yes. Oh man. So have you ever heard of this word off? Yeah, but I don’t know what it means. So I feel like this is this is what you and I do. It’s basically the the inherent ability that some people have to see something in like the month every day to see something unusual and every day and so I wanted to pick your brain a little bit. So when I’m when I’m out and I’m traveling so travel is like the main source of my inspiration. I feel you sure. I feel well one that’s not happening right now. It’s figure really bad news. It’s bad news for my soul. Travel is Ivan whenever I hear someone say that I’m I get home.

00:35:00 – 00:40:14

This is why I’m an expressive, you know Communicator as I want. I want you to know. I know what you mean like yes traveling right right. Now, when you go yeah, you place yourself in another context and your creativity is just on fire every time every time I you know things like I’ve got two big projects in the works right now ones about dreams and the other ones about my invisible things characters. Both of those came from pieces. I’m a while traveling waling-waling, you know, the UK my my family my my wife’s family’s over there and it’s just something that happens man like one we were in a sales and the other one. I was in northern England and just I don’t anyway, I just like that was my little Ode to travel eight. Oh, yeah. Well, no, that’s great. That’s your eyes off. No, you’re you’re already partially answering where I was going with this because I I’ve well, first of all my great-grandpa’s from Wales, so I haven’t been I haven’t been there yet. But well my husband and I just went home for two weeks in October. So got that in right before this crazy. We’re at least we went to Europe. So we went to we went to France and Italy and England so long and Scotland. Yeah, that’s awesome. I can I just I just want to highlight something here. Yes, I what color is your highlighter off pink? I I you know, I just want your audience to know that I have ADHD when I’m not excited. I’m really good at raining it in of like don’t interrupt keep it chill don’t want a tangent. I’m good at that. But all these questions are my favorite things to talk about and so I’m being impolite and I I noticed I just want them to know that I know I’m trying. Not to do it, but it’s there’s no stopping it. Now. You know what? We are Kindred Spirits cuz more often than not I’m the one in interviewing and then interrupting my guess and I’m like dang it like you’re supposed to be the polite way to tell them this there’s a there’s a phrase It’s called burst Enos and it’s it’s a it’s like what happens in a in a writers room of if it’s a creative conversation and it’s and it’s working and they’re slow it there should be interrupting. It’s called burst Enos. It’s an actual phenomenon. That’s up you’ve trolls. I’m just to call this episode burst anus with a DJ pizza and I love it. Yeah, I love that’s what it’ll be now. So I guess just where with that is I because I’ve always had this right life. Not only not only has travel always been a huge thing for me. I’ve always sort of never felt like I belong where I am, even though I’m not an Enneagram 7 like I’m not off. Just wanting to go go go like I’m a hardcore any country. I don’t know what you know about the anagram anagram 3, but there’s something about well, that’s like Forest thing. How long way when you are, right? Okay. Yes. Everything about me is like, oh man, they say that they can’t put you in a box, but I feel like pretty okay being in this box because it pretty well like said I am right. So wait, what is your Enneagram? I’m a 4 with a 3 Wing. Oh, very nice that this this conversation makes a lot more sense. So I’ve just I’ve always had a hard time kind of Up until recently explaining to people how this works. Like I want to be able to show people how to have this being awake and aware of your surroundings and really putting yourself in a position to I think that too many people wait around for inspiration. I’m just going to sit here with my notebook and my package or on the computer and I’m just going to wait for inspiration to like hit me and when it doesn’t then we get all discouraged then we have self-doubt. So I’m trying to like show people, you know, you have the power to take control of this you can take control of your creativity like go out and look for inspiration. Don’t just go out and like wait for it to like land on you like like the Dew in the morning like go out and search for it and I’m finding it isn’t as easy as I thought to educate people on how to do that because it comes so naturally to me. So how as a as a four Wing three now, I guess do you actively like think when you go out like say you’re in England visiting family or whatever and you leave the house to go get coffee. Do you think I want to find jobs in or do you just kind of like walk around and you already kind of have things brewing for projects you’re working on or things and then you kind of just see stuff and how do you capture those things? I want to tell you two things about that.

00:40:14 – 00:45:00

So first of all, one of the this isn’t the main thing I want to say, this is just a little nugget that I think is cool interesting and helpful to creative people at least it is to me and it’s this idea of Alfred Hitchcock said that that style is just self-plagiarism and it and it’s just an idea of like wow. The reason Wes Anderson’s movies look like Wes Anderson is cuz he did that in bottle rocket and he’s like, you know what I like how I set up that scene. I’m going to copy it that style. That’s that’s how that’s what it is. And the reason I mention that is because I am always working on stuff and in the back of my mind in terms of like I’m always working on something. I’ve already worked on theirs and that keeps this little it’s like a little flying just the engines always pushing forward and I think you know reading Jim Henson’s bio biography. He one of the things truly interesting about him is you know, when Mom gets the show came out. Well, I don’t know if you know this but it was a it was like the biggest thing in the world at the time that show was huge and off and it took him forever to get to get anybody to make it and blah blah blah blah blah, but the interesting thing about that is when you watch that show everybody assumes like they sat around and they were like, oh, What should the characters be for the show? What about a frog? What about a pig? What about this? What about that not true at all that has not how it happened how it happened was he had spent I don’t know a decade making commercials for cereal companies and coffee companies and data all these characters and he made specials with you know, different Muppets and are puppets and whatever and they just change picked. Oh, we really like this serial monster. That’s Cookie Monster really like this, you know this frog thing let’s and it wasn’t even a frog at first. It was like an amorphous blob, you know thing and they like that’s kind like a frog let’s do that. And so it’s just this like collection that just continues to you know, this patina overtime gets added to gain you’re doing so you’re always so I think that’s part of it as I’m always I’m always working on something that I was already working on and so it’s I feel like that’s it means I don’t know. I always have something to Noodle and always have something to look out for right like like oh like, oh, I’ll read a book and I’ll there’s a quote. They’re like, oh relates to this other thing. I was working on some always collecting for collect multiple collections projects. So that’s one thing the second thing is though. This goes back to the whole sensibility metal detector thing off because you know, one of the things one of the ways, I would struggle to teach somebody to come up with the kind of content that I come up with. You know, how I would find that inspiration off, you know, whatever like I I would struggle to to pass that on because they would have to acquire that taste. Whereas that’s something I are it’s an eight from right and and so in the back, but but I didn’t know which know that I didn’t always know what my taste was so I can you can think of whatever type of work you’re doing. You can imagine it like a tongue with taste buds off. So some people have a sweet tooth. Some people have a thing for bitter. Some people have you know, some people when they taste cilantro taste like soap like every tongue is different. So I think one of the keys, it’s just figuring out what kind of taste buds do I have in this actually was a huge thing for me because you know growing up. I was desperate to be a comedian. I wanted to go I wanted to be on Saturday Night Live and that was my dream and everything and actually, you know, as I got more stable in my creative career about four or five years ago when I really felt like you know what I’ve done this thing and this is working fine. What else what do I want to explore next? I was you know, I kind of toyed with did not do I want to do comedy cuz like I always wanted to do that and and I and I and over the years. I feel like I’ve realized oh, I just don’t collect funny things that suck. What I that’s not my taste I don’t and I sometimes what I do is funny sometimes a story is funny but it never is the start of the story. It’s never why I collected it. I know how old is Mike or thing is? I know I am a collector of like synchronicity which is to me just meaning and that’s in really the best place to pull those things are story. So my buddy Kyle Sheeley calls this type of person.

00:45:00 – 00:50:16

There’s a stand-up comic and then there’s the laydown tragic. That’s what I am and and it’s just my my tastes really amazing visual image of you actually before he ever we ever said that in my talk. I have a section where I had started sucking face down on the floor. I was like a visual like gag thing of like just to make people uncomfortable like Andy Kaufman or something like as a but anyway, I but for me all of my taste choice My taste my receptivity. I’m I have a heightened receptivity to you know, meaning if something feels like oh, that’s the meaning of life and I’ll cry like I watch Hamilton for the first thought the movie I’ve only made it to intermission. I’m almost there man. Oh man, we watched that half the first night in the second half the next night. My husband’s work in a long late hours during quarantine. So we were we haven’t had a very a date for that second half if you’ve got kids and you also are watching with, you know, a spouse it’s hard to get stuff in I get so much grief about the things. I don’t watch you know that movie or that play. I was like in tears more or less than the start to the end because it’s it’s about the human Spirit. There’s just I am receptive not that’s what gets me and I have this and when you have that you know that birth September T. There’s a Nuance in the palette. You’re like, oh, you know if somebody doesn’t like bitter things and they or it doesn’t register on their tongue. They’re not going to get the Nuance of like, oh, this is why I just complex palette really brings it out. That’s what’s going on. But for me, it’s all about like what you know, the invisible stuff the meaningful stuff the page and in this and and that’s really useful for storytelling because story-telling is in my opinion like reproducing synchronicity and people it’s like the ending should come about and what they say is a surprising but inevitable way to where like, oh, of course, that’s what it feels like, you know makes sense. Yeah, and that’s what it feels like when you have a meaningful coincidence in your life. It’s the same feeling and so I you know, anyway my whole point with that he was you know, don’t worry about learning to see them. Like one particular person just see just figure out what do I see? Just learn how to see and then once you’re doing that once you figure out what kind of metal detector you have then you can start fine-tuning calibration to be like and now when like for instance, I dunno I dunno my funniest stories. They’re all this happened over time. They’re all I’m the job with them always. That’s it’s always some damn thing that I did the punch line. So amazing to me now when I do something dumb my calibration is set about film but not in the podcast like I just know and so that’s that’s where the training comes in is like first do the inner work of what am I sensitive to what you know in life and art and then once you start calibrating that you’ll get better and better of seeing the stuff as it’s happening and that that was you know, that did ruin my comedy aspirations was like, I just don’t know. I’m not I don’t I don’t value it that much. I don’t I don’t think of like it’s an effort for me to be like and what would be funny about that or it’s not an effort for me to be like what’s the meaning of life? That’s all I’m doing all the time. Yeah, I love that. So I I have a particular sensibility for seeing color palettes. Yes and same color in the world and the meaning behind color is huge. So like one of my big soap boxes that I get on and then I’ll just get very interested in this hired about real life. Yeah is like, okay. So why are you using like black and and red and yellow in this, you know, if I’m talking to designers or art directing which I did for a while and it’s like well, it’s just it just felt right and I’m like, okay, but why why why did it feel right? What is yellow? Say, what does it say when it’s next to Black and what does that say when they are both put next to Red and dead. Nine times out of ten. It’s like I don’t know. It’s like okay, but you have to know these things because human psychology and our awareness and how color impacts us on a very long deep level is so important to how we interact with the thing that you are making and so not only do I love educating on the meaning of color, but when I’m out in the world like that is my number one like heightened sensibility and I have way too many pictures on my camera on my phone because when I go anywhere like all even just go in my backpack and all of a sudden I’ll see either a texture or a color or something that I’m just like I love the way this looks nature doesn’t get things wrong.

00:50:16 – 00:55:10

And I know these meanings together will work for X client with this thing. And so I totally get that and I I love the analogy of the taste buds thing because not everybody sees that but I also think that it’s it’s valuable to share with people like finding meaning like you do like here’s it’s important to see meaning deeper meaning in life because it adds value to your life and your work but it’s also important to to understand things like color meaning and be able to have that awareness in the world around you because that’s one of the simplest things you can find inspiration and when you’re out and about I think one hundred percent and you know, you know one thing I think you highlighted that I I just want to get my pink highlighter out. There’s a lot of highlighting. I like it. I like it a lot. I know that was going to deal for me. That’s what I asked you what color highlighter that’s definitely pink. I so if I’m going for a highlighter, that’s what I’m picking. I’m always yellow yellow is just it’s too on-the-nose not want an Enneagram 4 would pick that’s the problem. But when one of the things I think you that I thought I really love as that you said is this idea of asking why this is a huge huge huge deal. There’s never your brain doesn’t off randomly doesn’t happen and it’s always interconnected to something about your identity your DNA your experiences your story. It’s always or genetics. It’s it is there’s a reason why and if you understand the reason now you’re in control of it now, you can do it on command now you can do it again. And so and now you can explain it. Now, you can sell it now, right there’s every day. So when you know when I was starting out exploring my own sensibility, the thing that happened early on was I remember I’m like collecting all these thing. I got stuck in this place where it’s not working and you know, blah blah blah blah, we can go into that if you want, but I was like I started I didn’t know what else to do. So I just collected the things that hit me on the most visceral level. Is before I had any language for sensibility or any of that taste stuff or whatever and I was like I want to put I need to just collect this stuff and I thought but why it’s I just like it. There’s no way there’s nothing to it. It’s just I like that thing. I like and it was it was stuff. Like I like in a drawing when there’s eyes in a hole in a tree trunk. I don’t know I just like life but I trusted that that there was a there was gold in there so that I kept digging I said, okay. Yeah, but every time there’s something hidden I like it. There’s I like and I look back at all my kids books and I noticed this pattern of like, oh, I love this book because there’s someone hiding behind the curtain like and and at first I’m like, oh, it’s just like a oh, I just think that’s cool. But eventually realize like know that’s a metaphor for how I feel about life. I feel like there is more than meets the eye that’s why I like quantum physics because that proves there’s other universes. There’s birth So much stuff going on here. And so but I never knew any of that and I did it. You know my work was so Hollow before it had all of this stuff and and and and and I had that command of it, you know what I’m saying? So I thought of that you’re saying that like don’t just say I like color like why what does it and reminds me of I was just listening to this episode of on being that podcast and I don’t remember I didn’t I’m not sure who this person was, but she’s a Native American and she went into botany and and she did that because she wanted to ask the question of why do these two flowers grow next to each other? They’re purple and yellow and and and why is it so beautiful and and the botanist was like the button botany Community was just like it’s botany write this down. Look. I’m I’m just a flash in my mind is pretty kids same as it’s completely off like a complete idiot pretty sure it’s not me. I’m pretty sure it is dead. Whatever you want geology, whatever. I don’t know rocks, right? Anyway, Plantside. Yeah. Yeah she but she’s like, that’s the question. That’s why she went into that. And in the in the scientific Community initially was just like artists they were like, there’s no reason you just like it you just like yellow and purple and she’s like, but she proved that there is a it’s a tracks pollinators because they are complementary colors and beautiful to the eye and so it actually gives them an advantage to grow next to each other and she only found a pleasure because she dug into some internal sensibility of like something’s there man like and and and that’s where that’s the good stuff.

00:55:10 – 01:00:04

Yeah. I was teaching at my alma mater. Advanced Design Concepts to Juniors and seniors a while back and one of my students at the end of the term was like you need to just give out tee shirts to your students. That just says why I’m Jeff. Was I just always asking why and I tell my audience all the time like you need to be like a toddler if you don’t have kids what that means is you just keep asking why until you absolutely cannot go any deeper than that and I actually was talking with an Enneagram expert Chris here a while back and he was telling me that in regards to like digging deep into June are as a person like asking why seven times when he does this with people like usually ends up with people in tears because it gets to the core core of like who they are. He got he got to like level 5 with me and then some we were doing something and like we couldn’t go further but I was like, oh thank God cuz I’m not a crier and I didn’t want to go that book. I am a crier. I love crying so much, but I thought that I was just going to bring up. I heard that in a different context in a branding Workshop when I was at a conference and they were taught this is what they do with clients. Yeah, they do it and this is Jeff. Really good for Creative people because they were trying to get to the what is the human problem your your company solves? Okay. Yes, you’re a company sells drugs. But why why do you sell rods the address? Cuz we like Rags. Why do we like rugs? We like rugs because our feet get cold on the you know, and but you go back back back back back to you because we need any drugs like down there is a in the same goes for this something. I try to get creative people to think about anybody that lets go into business. You’ve gotta have a offering you’ve got to understand. Why does anybody care year and it can’t just be like cuz I like that that’s not going to give you everything you need to command it and communicate what you have. Right? Right, and and that’s so I’ve started as well you’re making this because I you wish that there was more stuff like this in the world. This is similar to stuff you like, but hopefully once you get to the good stuff you’re critiquing the stuff you like you’re saying yeah, and it’d be better if it was this way and so yep. You say well why why do I like that? That’s the same way that you’re serving your audience and you can go out there and say I’m making these characters because to me they need represent that there’s more to life than what we can see and I don’t know about you. But if this is it, I don’t want to stick around like I’m not like if everything on Twitter is all that we have I I need to check out I can’t be there. You know what I mean? That’s what I needed. And so you keep asking why of why do you like it? Why do you like it? Why do you like it? You’ll get to this is why I’m here to serve people to bring this thing Garry Shandling. Cause it giving what you didn’t get. You know, what? What is what what how are you serving Humanity by being the thing that didn’t exist before you were here? Like here’s what I wish I would have had right filling those gaps with you. Yes you doing it? Yeah, and it’s hard cuz you gotta flip that’s an interesting thing. I don’t think I’ve ever thought of this song. You’ve got a flip from the victim mindset of that’s where you become. That’s that’s almost the coming of age hero’s journey thing of sitting around and saying, you know, I never got this I didn’t have a mentor. Nobody mentored me to going and saying I’m going to go Mentor people because I didn’t get one. Yeah well and I I had to go through this process and that’s how I kind of ended up at the platform of take control of your creativity because I was very tired of hearing forgive me all of you out there who think I’m being harsh like all the baby cried designers that are like, I just don’t feel inspired. I can’t do any work and it’s like, you know what your client and the work doesn’t care. If you feel inspired like you can take control of this you can find your inspiration. You can start the dang work and you can finish even if it’s not perfect because Perfect Isn’t doesn’t exist and you can put it out there in the world and regardless of how it’s received. It’s done and you did it and you can move forward and song. Like understanding that and and teaching people that why for your own purpose is like the the beginning point but then why in a more practical sense when you’re working on things, it’s like why is this time based? Right? Why is this colored appropriate? Why am I choosing illustrations over photography and like all the different things that go into that are going to like take you from being just a good technician designer to being like a great designer that is like whose work is getting noticed because it has depth and meaning. Yes, absolutely. And I you know, I think there’s a there’s a hiding behind into English and in in a hiding behind.

01:00:04 – 01:05:02

I don’t know why it just is or you know, I feel like early on in your career. There’s a lot there’s a there’s a there’s a temptation to be right behind endorsements and like how do I how do I get in the room just by you know fancy words or whatever, but eventually you just realize like that you’re building. Career on Sand if you don’t have actual value and so now I I actually there’s a lot of work, you know advertising stuff that I did early on in my career with illustration. That was so fashion based. It’s just you know Trends and whatever and actually like mostly run away from that like if there’s some advertising company that or some ad campaigns really wants to use my voice and it’s a good fit. I’m still here. I’ll do it, you know, take your money. All right. Yeah, I’m not going to say no but a lot of that stuff I just ended up running from because I’m like there is no why this is shallow. It’s it’s not you know, it’s it’s bogus and if I build my whole thing on this as as easily as it as the wind has blown my way I can blow the other way. But if I’m delivering stuff that makes people feel stuff because I know the mechanics of how to do it and I I can do that for hire all of a sudden. I have a real business. Yes. Yeah absolutely dead. So I know our time is about run out, but I didn’t want to miss the music portion of what I hope to talk to you. Okay on my podcast. I well music is a huge part of like Who I Am song named after the song by the Looking Glass Brandy. You’re a fine girl. All that stuff. My middle name is C. So that’s where that comes from. My mom’s a drummer and my my parents are super cool. But so music was like all my house and I I have an ear for it and it’s very I find really deep meaning in in different songs. And so I talked about this on the podcast all the time and it’s a huge part of my my process. So young various stages of my process, like whether it’s the word map and I don’t listen to lyrics I listen to a lot of Sleeping at Last or things like without lyrics and then as the process goes on I listen to completely different styles of music as like progresses. I wanted to know like I know that music is a big thing for you. You did your your coloring book. That was like the big kick-off for your your journey. I guess part of your journey, but dead. What I guess what sorts of music do you listen to when when you really want to get into the zone? And then what are you listening to right now that you just really love that? I should be listening to say. Yeah. I love these questions cuz I’m you know music is so important to me but I so if I’m ever idea if I’m really if I’m really thinking I don’t have any music if I’m thinking like actively trying to find what I want to say in a particular episode or what or with a with a piece of work whatever it is. I’m not usually but that’s so you’re right in silence. Yeah, I write in silence writing is a silent thing. I didn’t expect the most part and but then as soon as I’m out of as soon as I get the kernel of it, then I’m instantly into instrumental stuff. One of my favorites and has been my one of my favorites for a while now is a tourist town. Do you know this band I’d I’d go one guy writing it down. Definitely. I think his second delay. This album is called a wake up and that at least one of the songs called that but that album is more or less how I want my life to feel all the time. It’s like a fast Beat song. It seems super chill and it’s just very ethereal and it’s very like it’s very morning Vibe and that’s that’s where I met my friends. And yes, I am right now you go listen to this and you tell me if this hits you because I wedding that’s my jam and I’ve I haven’t even played it out yet. I’ve listened to it a billion times, but there’s a lot of stuff in that vein that I listen to if I’m doing any idea based stuff. So if I’m doing outlines or writing or concept thing or anything like that, then I’ll do that and then you log If I’m if I’m if I’m working on if I’m like coloring an illustration then I’m going to listen to you know, lyric heavy stuff. Yeah to to the people that come to mind the most of my favorite album this year and it’s my favorite album in I don’t even know how long is st. Cloud by Waxahatchee Have you listened that I have listened to that. Yes, I love salad disaster and and I she said she might be on my podcast or some very exciting but I don’t know if I can make it down whenever yeah, bring it into existence off Katie.

01:05:04 – 01:10:19

The the the the one of my first questions is going to be did you design the opening soundtrack to be the perfect way to start the album, but also to follow up the last song because it you listen to it and you’re like, this is just I just want to listen to it again and again. So good. I have I’m obsessive that and then the other the other band that has really been doing it for me for awhile. Musician is Alex G. He used to go by Sandy Alex G. It was then he was Sandy Alex G now is Alex she again, you know, he’s kind of like he’s he gets described a lot as like Elliot Smith meets Built to Spill. Okay, very singer-songwriter with the kind of nineties alternative Indie stuff and it’s real experimental on certain tracks. So certain tracks are really singer-songwriter with some experimental kind of production. But yeah, he’s probably the most interesting position making music to me. That’s awesome. Yeah. I heard your interview with Jamie Drake and one of I chose I actually featured one of her songs on a podcast episode, but I really not too long. I was like, oh, this is so great. I actually like you said you couldn’t find much on her on the internet. I can’t either sounds like this is perfect. This is great. Yes fantastic. She is so talented and the sweetest person of all time. Yeah. So I have a little I have a whole playlist music from design speaks podcast on Spotify that it’s like two whole days of music now, I think that’s easy. I have a little playlist called CPT work list who I don’t think I know that the it’s almost yeah. It’s almost all instrumental. There is some vocals but they’re pretty they’re like vocals mostly used as like an instrument kind of gotcha. That’s awesome. Well, we’re probably hitting the edge of of me being polite with your time. So speaking of being polite we will have to do this again in the future. I hope and if there is anything else you would like to say to the audience now is your chance. Okay, no pressure last and one thing off. I would say I mean your audience is mostly creative. Yes the same creative professionals. Yeah. Yeah, you know I would say this is something I’ve been thinking about a lot and often it’s in a new class. I’m working on with skillshare. It’s going to be coming out soon. And it’s this idea that have you ever heard me tell the alien story. Yes, but feel free proceed with that. This is this is the thing, you know, this self-discovery thing that we we had a thread throughout this I kept coming back and my mind I kept thinking about how important self-discovery as to May and a lot of what we talked about Falls in that bucket, you know, your sensibility and knowing yourself and asking why and all that stuff and I think now that my my favorite little story about this that I think illustrates why I’m so obsessed with it. Is this idea that what if one day your mind your own business wage? Out of the sky maybe a wormhole pops open an alien just falls out of the sky and the alien has this alien device and it looks otherworldly and crazy and the alien tells you I’ve got three things to tell you about this device. The first one is this is the only one of these in the universe the second one is worth it. Yeah, and it’s always that way the second one is the inside. This thing is the known universe as most complex enter Machinery that it is. It defies logic. We don’t even know how it works. It’s so complex. And then the third thing I want to tell you is what this thing can do what what it was made for what it’s capable of and then right before he tells you number three another alien pops out of the Wormhole, but this one is clearly a bad alien and kills the first alien before they can tell you what it’s for birth. And if anybody was in the circumstance, right if if an alien gave you a device it was the only one in the universe and it was the most complex inner Machinery you would do whatever you could do to figure out the answer to number three. What can this thing do right and of course your audience that’s solve the punchline. Yes, you’re in that circumstance right now. There’s no other thing like you off of the universe in your head. You have the the known universe is most complex enter Machinery. Yes, we literally don’t know how it works and yet are you doing what it takes? Are you doing everything that you can to figure out? What does this weird combination do because it’s never existed and you’ll never exist again and if we’re not and if all you’ve done is a personality test and sat with your guidance counselor in high school and said, what’s this thing for your not doing the work? Yeah doing here on the planet to do.

01:10:19 – 01:15:16

Yeah. I don’t know why I just pictured the device as the little thing that the cat wears around them. And black the Universe. I love that. I wonder if it’s because I’ve talked about that I talked about it’s similar to it’s similar to me that there’s a similar like story device with Wizard of Oz where the thing they’re looking for. They have the whole time. Yes, and that’s also true for you that thing you’re looking for you hath. You’re not looking for something. You don’t have you’re looking for what you already have to do a little digging got a bigot. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much and you for being a part of design speaks podcast. I have been dying to talk to you and it did not disappoint and I loved all are tangents and it’s got to happen more. So well before anybody gives me hate-mail ADHD Israel and look at the facts down this one of the top ones interrupting people and I try not to but I was too excited but brand new worst questions. You would have asked boring questions. I would have been able to contain myself. I don’t know how to log. Boring, so I think I think that’s a good start. So where can people find you and all that good stuff. Here’s your Shameless plug moment Shameless plug Instagram and EJ pizza and we’re off podcast SAR. You can search creative pep talk and we’ll be there. Okay and your skill share class. Yeah. I mean search me on skillshare. We have the first classes about castrating a breakthrough in your creative career with a strategic project and it’s that one’s really about marketing your work and the next class. We haven’t announced yet. But okay, it’s gonna be good. It’s coming out in the next month. Well used my favorite s word strategy. So we’re officially friends. All right. I’m not I’m ready. When you you’re good. You take taking strengthsfinder. You know what? I haven’t you should take that one. If you like, you know stuff like Enneagram. This one is and I would just prepare you this was like a game. Six years ago when I took that’s in my top strength is strategy and that I’d never considered myself to be a strategic person before that. And when I heard it I what’s so interesting that test is other personality tests. You read it and you’re like, oh yeah. Yeah, that’s me almost everything on that list were things. I really didn’t know about myself. They were words that I and then I diving in I was like, oh my gosh, like another one was competitive and I realized like, oh, I hate Sports not because I don’t like them but because I suck at them and I can’t stand to lose. That’s why I hate Sports so off I highly recommend it. It costs like twelve bucks or something, but it’s really yeah. Well to be honest when I first took the anagram probably like five or so years ago. I test I came out as a three and I was like, no I’m a designer. I have to be a four. Yeah, like right I have to be a four so I sort of like shunned it for a while until about two or three years ago and have obviously been through some home. Any of my own since then it was like okay. Yeah, I’m definitely this is there is no doubt here. I am like all the numbers on three and so wing for and all that makes for why I wear leggings and things like that. So, all right. Well, okay, this is officially goodbye. Thank you. Thanks for having me. This is super fun. Thanks for being here and we’ll be in touch until next month. So Julie that was a lot to take I think probably were you able to follow it? What did you think? What did you what were your takeaways tell me all the things back. Well, my number one takeaway was I loved that he talks about breath of the wild the wild fans out there. Yeah. Well, I mean, I love that and I also like grew up watching Muppet stuff. So that was fun, too. Yeah. Did did you notice his little Muppet in the background of the video? Oh, wait, I don’t think you’ve seen the video I have it. So so no, I did not I imagined it. Yeah, he has a little Muppet up on his shelf. That’s like him and it’s that’s awesome. Thank God. Yeah, were you guys talking about it? Yeah, so thankfully for for the new visual Learners. We now have this podcast on YouTube. So all of our episodes more episodes will be there so you can check out Andy and and see our our crazy and in Live In Living Color. I think that I think that it’s really valuable for Thursday for designers and for creatives to to see someone like Andy who is so free and so confident in his voice but also see that he does have off like some guidelines and some buses to it.

01:15:16 – 01:20:10

So it was really interesting to hear like his like story process and everything. Yeah. What was that? That surprised you most about the conversation. Do you think besides hearing that? He’s a breath of the wild. It’s the best thing ever made is so I would definitely put it in my like top ten video games ever maybe even top 5 ever. Yeah. Mine is still Tetris. Sorry bout the colors. It’s because I’ve decided you know, I’ve actually here we go. Again another sidebar. I’ve actually been thinking a bit about like what it is that I love about Tetris and I think that I am so good at it because it’s putting it’s like putting together puzzles in different ways either. It’s not like an actual puzzle. We’re like, right there is only one way off Google and you know Tetris is like problem-solving on steroids and it’s like instantaneous and it’s like math and colors and problem solving which is basically what name You for a living? Yeah, that totally makes sense. So like really Tetris is her feet and now I’m like, oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah and it all makes sense the threat of there since I played on my little Game Boy and like wage sixth grade. So yeah. So what was like the most surprising thing for you about the conversation surprising? I don’t know I really liked when it’s hard to choose cuz they’re the conversation was almost everywhere, you know, like it was like a word map. It was like there are threads here. Yeah. It’s a little bit all over the place. I thought it was super interesting though when he was talking about story and how it’s like programmed into us like how it wasn’t like something like oh, hey this works well and then already started doing it. Like it’s literally just like part of human nature and how we do things without even thinking about it. I thought that was super interesting. Yeah. Yep. Talk about life. Like was he attacking something about like I got a flat tire. So yeah, exactly people just inherently know now granted there. There are people like my mom who I love very dearly and who I often take after in many ways, but sometimes I’m just like what’s the actual story would you like you were going to the store? And then you did this and then you did Thursday and then this and this and this. Okay. So what’s the point here? Right so we are inherently storytellers, but I think the beauty of telling stories for a living is crazy is that we have to learn how to edit ourselves down and and learn how to tell those stories and the best way that reflects our voice. Yeah, like it comes natural. But so you kind of have to tough day if you’re going to be intentional about it has to be like well-crafted. Yeah for sure, but at least people will naturally respond well to it they don’t have to think about it. It just happens birth. Us so I hope that you guys enjoyed this interview. It was an absolute blast to record. There was a couple of technical issues in the beginning. So hopefully the the beginning part isn’t too funky for you to watch slash slash listen to but you can find Andy everywhere at a DJ Pizza. His name is actually $1,000 but he goes by an TJ pizza and literally everything and he has so many cool resources. He has a a side project that he does called KO Loop, which is a group of other illustrators and kind of a collective of people that can support each other. And so I really appreciate what he does. You should go support him. Go check out all the things that he has he has a really cool book for helping you find your creative voice. And yeah, I hope that this was helpful and encouraging and entertaining. I don’t usually say that but I’m pretty sure that it’s dead. Is entertaining so I think that’s it and I hope you guys have an awesome week until next time. All right, everybody. That’s our episode for today. If you enjoy this podcast and want to support us you can become one of our exclusive patrons over at patreon.com design speaks you’ll have access to Extended episodes and lots of fun bonus content life and even more coming very soon design speaks is produced by Kenneth kniffen and Dakota cook audio production by the podcast days. Thanks to Colin from vespertine former incredible theme music you can find vespertine on Apple music and Spotify design speaks is a project of Brandy see designs.

01:20:10 – 01:20:36

It’s recorded and produced in the way of the watermelon pink Sandia Mountains near Albuquerque, New Mexico, you can leave us a note on Instagram at design speaks podcast, and you can find all current and past at Birth. Designed space podcast. Thanks again for listening. Thanks for watching and so much off.