Thank You To

TRANSCRIPTION  of Chapter 9 of Season 2

Brandi Sea  0:05  

Welcome to design speaks. The podcast that helps you use uncommon inspiration so you can overcome creative block and make better work. I’m your host, Brandi Sea . Joining me is my co host, Julie hider. This week, we’re gonna be talking about how to get more of the kind of work you love to do. Stay tuned for that coming up later in the show.

Julie Haider  0:33  

Hi, Julie. Hey, Brandi.

Brandi Sea  0:36  

So, per usual, I think I’m just gonna ask you weird question everywhere. I have a weird question for you.

Julie Haider  0:42  

Okay, cool. I expect nothing less.

Brandi Sea  0:44  

Okay, good. Good. Now the bar is not too high. So have you ever eaten anything like a snack or a candy or something like that, that you like really loved and decided that you just that’s what you wanted all the time and ate way too much of it. And now, you’re just like over it?

Julie Haider  1:04  

I’ve definitely done that with food where I’m like, I’m ready. Eat this every day for lunch for two weeks. And then after that, I’m like, I don’t eat that for like another six months or more.

Brandi Sea  1:13  

Yeah.

So when I was in when I was in high school, you know, jelly bellies?

Yeah. Well, they

do you know, the butter popcorn one?

Julie Haider  1:24  

Yes, I

have mixed feelings on that.

Brandi Sea  1:27  

Most people don’t have mixed feelings. Most people are like GROWS! Butter popcorn jelly! So, when I was in high school, right outside the movie theatre, there was a Jelly Belly stand where they had all the kinds that you could like, get. Yeah, you could, like get a bag full. So I was gonna go to a movie with my cousin. And she and I like, thought, let’s get some candy before and I was like, You know what? I’m gonna like, kill two birds with one stone. And instead of getting popcorn and candy, I’m just gonna get butter popcorn jellybeans. So I got like, no massive butter popcorn delivering them to the whole movie. I was so sick.

Julie Haider  2:04  

Oh, gosh,

Brandi Sea  2:05  

I was so sick. So I didn’t throw up or anything. But the whole point of this, like weird conversation is: doing work that we know how to do or even sometimes, like if we if we do the same thing too much. We’re gonna get sick of it. If it’s not something that like is nourishing is like good for us. Which jelly beans are not!

Julie Haider  2:30  

Yeah.

Brandi Sea  2:32  

Contrary to popular opinion, it’s not a good idea to eat a bag full of jelly beans. It’s not fulfilling. It leaves us feeling sick. Sometimes, like you get a feeling in the pit of your stomach when someone asks you to do something. And you feel bad saying no. But you really don’t love doing it. But you do it anyway. And then you do just feel like achy. And so we’ve all been there. And that’s what we’re going to talk about today is how you can do more of the work that you love, more of the stuff that nourishes you and does not make you sick, like a bag full of jelly beans. So, but first before we do that, what have you been up to these days, Julie?

Julie Haider  3:17  

Yeah, I am planning a road trip right now.

Yeah.

I haven’t travelled anywhere since a very long time. A very long time last year. Yeah.

Brandi Sea  3:32  

Aside like, grocery store. That doesn’t count. Yeah.

Julie Haider  3:36  

I mean, these days,

I guess that is? Yes.

Brandi Sea  3:40  

To go pick up groceries at the pickup.

Julie Haider  3:43  

Yeah, exactly. Um, yes. So I’m going to be working in southwestern Colorado later this month. And so we’re now that we have a Jeep we’re gonna do some off roading there for a few days. Super excited about that. And then we’re gonna head from there to California. We’re both really missing the ocean. It’s like, it just it happens every year. Like we get to a point where like, we haven’t seen the ocean we haven’t been swimming like it’s

Unknown Speaker  4:13  

Yeah, for those of you who don’t know, there are no oceans in New Mexico. Short supply here. Short supply of ocean.

Julie Haider  4:22  

Very short supply. So yes, I do love New Mexico. But you know, as they say, We are a beach with no water. We’re just the sand.

Unknown Speaker  4:31  

Oh, you know? Yeah, we won’t even go. I could go off on so many tangents about that. But yeah, I too. I just in general, I’m missing travelling, like, yeah, I’ll take anywhere at this point that looks different from this. So again, I love it here too, but I’m very jealous. So you’re gonna have to give all the pointers when you get back to like how travelling. A road trip type of thing looks during like COVID times.

Unknown Speaker  5:01  

Yeah, I’m trying to figure that out like planning wise and like all the things we need to take and it’s just gonna be different. So it’ll be interesting but maybe you can be like excited

Unknown Speaker  5:10  

as a documentarian and take a lot of black and white photos to like, document the journey of a road trip during the time of Coronavirus.

Unknown Speaker  5:19  

You know, I have been wondering like our photo journalists out there taking pictures of all the like, like, How weird daily life is? Oh, yeah. Like how you have to stand in line to get in a grocery store and all that? because I feel like,

Unknown Speaker  5:32  

Yeah, I told Kenny and this is a complete sidebar, and then we’ll then we’ll move on. But I told Kenny, if, if I could do anything else. I could easily see myself being a photojournalist. Like because it’s like, you get to tell a story with like a single picture. Yeah, as opposed to just capturing a moment, which is great. And I love that and that is totally needed. But I just love this idea of creating, capturing like a story in a picture that’s like black and white and gritty and like, using film and going back and like developing it myself. just sounds like so much fun. Anyways, so well,

Unknown Speaker  6:17  

So speaking of what has been inspiring you lately?

Unknown Speaker  6:21  

Besides photographing people in masks on the street in black and white?

Julie Haider  6:26  

Yeah. Speaking of black and white again. We’re wearing black and white shirts.

I’m with sleeves with sleeves because fall

Brandi Sea  6:35  

Yeah, yeah.

Julie Haider  6:36  

How’s this happening?

Brandi Sea  6:37  

I don’t know.

Unknown Speaker  6:38  

I don’t know. Because we’re great. Yeah, so what’s been inspired me lately so it is planner shopping season. For those of you who are not planners, it is it is a shopping thing like it is an ordeal there are so many planners you could get out there. There are literally like planners for your enneagram type or why like planners for moms planners for homeschool moms, planners for small business owners like it is kind of actually like an oversaturated market. To be honest, however, I’ve been using the same one by ink and volt for going on, this will be my fifth year. And I love the way that they put them together for like the purposes that I use. They are perfect. But you know, you guys know how I am. And I’m always looking for a better way of doing things. And so just to make sure the Ink and volt is still good for me this year, I’ve been researching lots of planners. And what kind of came out for me. Inspiration wise is I’ve been trying to put together various workbooks, workbook ideas for the process for going beyond color theory for finding inspiration, like things that people can like keep on their person or put in their pocket or whatever. So as I was researching planners just for myself, I ended up like taking some deep dive detours into like, the how we do it pages of these planners, and looking at like, how they think through the content on these pages. And like the usability and showing like how some of them lay flat and some of them have spirals and like some of them just have the staple in it because they’re meant to be used only for like a couple of weeks and then you put it on a shelf. Yeah, there’s just like so many things that go into it. And as somebody who has done a lot of editorial design of like magazine type things and book covers, I don’t I have not done like a deep dive into the interior design of like a planner. So it’s just been really inspiring to see the process of how that works and a little overwhelming because it is a lot and so I do have a lot to work through before I think something like that can can happen for me to be able to create. But yeah, I was just really inspired by the fact that there are so many and there are there’s basically a planner for everything. So it reminded me of the idea that like there can be a lot of something that even that I want to do but because I’m going to do something different. It’s there’s still room for me in the market. So that was that was inspiring, and that was encouraging. So that’s cool. Yeah, that was something that I’ve been I’ve been into right now.

Unknown Speaker  10:00  

That was Pays Imaginaire by Polo and Pan, which actually means imaginary country in French. I like to bring French songs because I listened to a lot of French songs. But this one was particularly interesting to me and fun. I definitely had to translate it. I’m not that great at French yet. But it’s it’s sort of just about the magic of being with someone you love, eating and holding hands. Some of the lines say it’s magical, we always eat with some music on only followed by our destiny, our never ending story. And I really just love like the lyrical romance, the quirky sound, I love all the little electronic beeps and bops that are in the song. It’s really hard to sing if you don’t know French, but it’s totally worth listening to, if you like the kind of vibes that it gives. So let’s talk about not getting sick over the work we do.

Julie Haider  11:07  

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  11:09  

Um, yeah, so we’ve, in the past talked about knowing your target market. And more recently, we’ve talked about, like how for them to find you. And so now once they find you, like, how are you going to make sure that you’re getting the kind of work that you want? instead of like… I mean, honestly, let’s, we’ve all been there where you’re like, this is paying the bills, but I don’t like it. It’s not filling you up creatively, which we’ve talked about last season of like, it’s super important to be doing work that you love, otherwise, you’re gonna start feeling depleted and your your work isn’t gonna be as good. So you don’t want to get to that point. So

Unknown Speaker  11:52  

yeah, and I realize that it’s a luxury though, like for us. Yeah. And so please, for those of you out there, especially like during this down economy and stuff, like don’t take this as a if you are doing work that you don’t love. Like that’s bad on you by any means like, yeah, I have, like you said, We’ve all been there where we’re just doing the lamest, the lamest stuff, because we have to pay bills. But you should always make sure that like there’s something there for you to really grab on to to fill you up creatively. So continue. Sorry, I totally interrupted you.

Unknown Speaker  12:26  

No, that’s a really good point to make. And it’s not like yet to feel shameful fear. Yeah, you know, doing that kind of stuff. Like we’ve all been there. And it’s a process. So we want to work towards just doing the work that you really love to do. But that doesn’t mean that you know, that’s the ideal. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  12:45  

And it won’t happen overnight, like even even in a before COVID world like that was difficult to do. Yeah. So we understand that we’ve been there. But we just want to encourage you and give you some some like advice and practical steps on how you can actually possibly do this. So

Unknown Speaker  13:05  

Yeah, I think the first step is kind of obvious is figure out what the heck you wanted to do.

Brandi Sea  13:11  

Yes.

Unknown Speaker  13:12  

It’s not necessarily like an easy step. But it is very obvious.

Unknown Speaker  13:17  

It sounds easy on the surface. But like when you sit down and go, Okay, well, what do I like to do? I like to do lots of things. So it’s almost it’s almost like the purpose Venn Diagram thing that I talked about earlier in the season. Yeah. Except it’s mainly looking at, you know, what you’re good at and what you like to do. So, so what you’re good at and what you like to do, may translate into what you want to do.

Unknown Speaker  13:47  

Yeah, so an example of that. I know it’s different for designers, but for me, it was an evolution through photography. At one point, probably eight years ago, now, I was working for someone else. And so I was basically forced to do literally any kind of photography that we are hired for and my boss would take any job. So I was doing corporate headshots, newborn photos, family photos, weddings, boudoir photos, like literally everything product photos.

Brandi Sea  14:21  

You did headshots of me, so yeah.

Unknown Speaker  14:26  

Yeah, so I started to realize through that like, okay, I don’t really enjoy most of this stuff as much as I do working with couples. So in and now it’s just kind of a realisation that came through, you know, over time of doing all of that stuff. And I think there is also value in trying all the different things because, you know, how do you know if you like it or not, if you haven’t tried it, so it was a good experience for sure. But I realized that couples were the ones that I like to work with. I felt more creative and I just enjoyed it more. So when I went to start my own business, like I decided, Okay, you know, once I get to the point where I can pay the bills, I will just that Yeah, yeah. And then I started, interestingly enough, from our last conversation, I got feedback of people saying you do really good at taking photos with a landscape and a couple in the landscape. And it kind of, and then also, like, looking at the weddings I was doing, I was like, you know, I really enjoy doing outdoor weddings. I don’t really love doing ballroom weddings as much like, I’ll still do them. But I get really excited when a couple says, Let’s go take photos outside. And so it just was like an evolution of things of just getting like picking up feedback from people, and then just looking inwardly and saying, This is what I like, I didn’t love that experience quite so much. And, yeah, and then eventually, that’s how I got to where I am today to being super specialized and doing adventure. elopements. The size of the wedding was also something that I like, realized over time of doing like, over, you know, several hundred weddings. I realized like, Oh, I don’t like big weddings, I don’t like big wedding parties, all that stuff. So as you’re moving through your work, you’re gonna like, pick up these things that you’re like, Okay, I do really like this, or I don’t like this. And I think it’s also important to say, you know, like, I could have been like, Oh, I really loved working on that wedding. But like, I would need to identify why. 

Brandi Sea  16:33  

Well, what,

what specifically about that?

Julie Haider  16:36  

Yeah, exactly what part of it did I enjoy? And take it from there? So I it does take time. Like, if you don’t have experience, then how we you know, so I think Yeah, you know, that’s kind of a precursor is go out there and get some experience and then start filtering through that.

Unknown Speaker  16:54  

Yeah. And I think, I think a good chunk of our listeners do have the experience. And the hard part is that you know what you’re good at. And you kind of maybe like all of it, like, it’s you like to design so yeah, I like to design covers, yes, I like to design logos. But then if you really, you kind of made a good point about like, you didn’t really like certain things. And so, if you take a step back, and you go Okay, well, what, what actually don’t I like? So maybe, yeah, or maybe What don’t I love? Because you might like all of it. I like doing logo design. I don’t love it anymore. Like it does. Yeah. What is it? Marie Kondo says, like looking through your closet, right? Yeah. Like, pick something up and ask yourself, does this spark joy?

Julie Haider  17:51  

Yes. Like,

Unknown Speaker  17:52  

it’s sort of that thing. It’s like, okay, so if you think about, like, all of the things that you could possibly design or create on a bookshelf, and you pull one down and go, Okay, this is, this is a book of poster design. Does this spark joy in me? Yes. Put that in this key pile. And so like, I don’t know why I always visualize things like this, because it like actually just helps me because otherwise, it feels so untouchable to try and figure out what it is that you like. And for me the process was. I’m I don’t have I don’t have any real connection when I’m just doing logos, which transitioned into doing only brands like full brand packages. Yeah. Which transitioned into brand more brand strategy, because it’s like, even this isn’t what I get joy out of like, I find joy in explaining to the client, like, exactly why I did everything and why it works. And so that took me away from all of the clients that were just messaging me on instagram saying, How much for a logo?

Julie Haider  18:57  

Right.

Unknown Speaker  18:58  

I actually and I just answer I don’t do logos, because I don’t like I do full brands and I do brand strategy. If a logo happens to be a part of that strategy, I will gladly do a logo for you. But you may not need a logo, you may need a Facebook ad campaign, you may need something completely different and your logo might be totally fine. So I think Yeah, for earlier in earlier in the, in the journey, trying things is the key is the absolute key and then looking at not only what you like, because sometimes that’s easy, but looking at what does not bring you joy, I think is Yeah, is really is really a good thing to do.

Julie Haider  19:41  

And I think also you touched on like the power of saying no, like, it’s okay for you to say no, I don’t want to do this. And to send that work on to someone else who does enjoy that right? That’s totally okay.

Unknown Speaker  19:56  

Yes. And it’s it actually is better and it starts too, it starts to build more of the community over competition idea. Because Yeah, it’s like, if you take everything that comes your way, just because you’re afraid that you’re not going to get any work, then you’re possibly taking work away from somebody that actually might bring them a lot of joy. Yeah, and you’re actually just making your life kind of sad, because you’re like, Oh, another, like, baby photo session, like, I’m so yeah, tired of this, as opposed to you know, what I know, a really great family photographer that loves doing baby photos. And then everybody’s happy. 

Unknown Speaker  20:37  

Yeah, let’s make it a win for everyone instead of, and also, you know, if you’re taking work that you’re not loving, and you’re, you know, like, sort of inwardly grumbling as you’re doing it. And afterwards, you’re like, why did I do this, you’re not doing your best work, you’re not serving that client as well as they could be served. So it really is better for everyone to do that. And then also, it’s kind of empowering to be able to say like, oh, okay, I don’t want to do this. And I can say that sorry. Yeah, don’t do this. Let me send you somewhere else.

Brandi Sea  21:08  

Yes. And there’s so many gracious ways and we can possibly do you know, another episode on that at some point in the future, so many gracious ways to say no. And, you know, so many gracious ways to, to tell people what you do without being like, No, I will not design your your stupid like, Brady logo. I

Julie Haider  21:28  

hate like, I hate doing a logo.

Unknown Speaker  21:28  

I’m never like, why are you talking to me? Okay, sorry. Yeah, so, um, the next thing I would say in relation to this is, like, once you’ve figured out what things you don’t want to do, and even you if you have like a rough idea, so you have like three or four things that you kind of, are playing with the idea of, that’s where, like, curating comes into play, because then you can start to really, the idea is to show so especially for visual creators like we are, you need to show people what you do, like, you can talk about it also. And you should, and that’ll be like the next step. And I’ll let you talk a little bit more about that. But when you show  like, when I was showing more of like the actual end product logos that I was doing, I was more proud of the process and getting there, like my word maps, and the thought and the research and all the stuff. But I wasn’t showing so much of that I was more showing like, here’s the reveal of the colours and the thing. And then people go, Oh, I like that. I want a logo. As soon as I started showing the process, and my book covers, and poster designs and the things that actually do really bring me joy. I started getting more of that kind of work. I was showing art that I did for musicians. And then I got more musician clients.

Julie Haider  22:52  

Yeah, I mean, we’re such visual people, like somebody’s gonna go look at it and be like, Oh, yeah, that’s what I’m looking for. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  23:00  

If you’re showing if I’m showing, like that, all I do is take photos, because I do take photos. It’s a hobby. It’s not what I do like for you. But if that’s all I did, people would get the impression that I was a photographer, if I never showed or talked about the fact that I do design and coaching. So yeah, yeah, there was a thought there, but it left me so. It happens.

Unknown Speaker  23:26  

I have a good friend who is a wedding stationery designer, and probably like five years ago, I remember her saying, I am so tired of doing black and red invitations and burlap invitations. She’s like, I hate them so much. And I keep getting them. And we were talking about like how, you know, New Mexico is kind of behind the times on wedding trends. And so we’re kind of like, inadvertently blaming it on like, Oh, well, you know, it’s just how it is here. It’s this place. Yeah. And then she had the epiphany of, Oh, I should stop showing those in my portfolio just because I designed it and I did a good job doesn’t mean somebody needs to see it. And so she took all of that stuff out. And now she’s like, killing it and doing exactly what she wants to do. And she’s kind of a trendsetter now, which is really like her thing. And she finally realized, you know, like, I need to be showing this stuff that I want to be doing and so she’s like treading Zen.

Julie Haider  23:30  

Wanting that and I work like just sticking out

Brandi Sea  24:35  

today, I guess.

Unknown Speaker  24:36  

Oh man. She is setting trends and really big on Pinterest and doing like all kinds of amazing things and like creating new niches and everything. This all No, it’s my friend Devonta Okay, from Funky Olive. Yeah. But um, yeah, her business is just like blown up and completely changed directions. And it all started with her realizing I need to stop showing the stuff I don’t like to do.

Unknown Speaker  25:05  

Yes, absolutely. So I guess we might have skipped around a little bit, actually. You do need to know how to talk about what you’re doing. And so we’ll save that for last. But I want to interject right here because it feels right that what if you don’t have any clients? to do? To show the work you love? Great question. And that is one of the number one questions that I get from students from, like fellow designers from even designers that have been doing it as long as I have. It’s like, yeah, I want to, I want to illustrate children’s books. But I don’t have any books. I don’t have any book clients. I don’t work for a publisher, there’s no, there’s no one that does that around here. New Mexico doesn’t have jobs, etc, etc, etc. And it’s like, okay, well, who’s stopping you from just doing something of your own? Yeah. And so it’s, it’s sort of like a weird mental, like, leap, you have to do that, that you don’t have to wait for it to come to you. And I think that as designers and creative professionals, as business owners, solopreneurs, entrepreneurs, we’re used to having to try to get people to come to us before we can do something, as opposed to going, I have ownership over my creative life. There’s tonnes and tonnes of public domain, things that you can use to make your own work. If you don’t feel like you have, like, we’ll just say children’s books for the example. Like if you don’t feel like you have a story in your heart, like, one, you could find somebody that has a story that probably needs illustrating. Or you can just take one that’s illustrate your version of Cinderella or Pinocchio, or any number of things that are just like out in the ether that you could just grab on to.

Unknown Speaker  27:01  

Yeah, if you’re, if you’re just waiting for like this dream client with a dream project to come along. It’s going to be a while. 

Brandi Sea  27:09  

It will probably never happen. Let’s be honest here.

Unknown Speaker  27:12  

When I decided that I wanted to switch from doing traditional weddings to doing adventure allotments I put up on my website, I wasn’t as savvy on all this website, and that’s perfect, man. But I put up like a thing specifically for adventure weddings. And I was just like, man, why is nobody wanting to hurt me for this while I was still showing like photos from you know, church, weddings and weddings with a bridal party and all that kind of stuff. And it wasn’t until I like sat down with a mentor. And she’s like, you need to cut all of this out of your portfolio. And you need to only be talking to those people. Otherwise, those people aren’t going to find you. And even if they do, they’re going to be like, oh, this isn’t what I’m looking for. Because they’re not seeing themselves and and the kind of project that they’re doing there. Right. So you can’t just wait for them to like fall out of the sky. And it’s your perfect dream project.

Unknown Speaker  28:11  

Right? And not that you need to treat people like they’re stupid. But Donald Miller calls it I think it’s like the the grunt test or something like that. Yes. For for like, and this is more for websites. But this applies, I would say for this exact thing that we’re talking about. Mm hmm. People don’t want to use all their mental energy to try to figure out what it is that you do. Yeah. So even if they don’t even know, like, maybe there’s like, like a woman out there that is looking for, or maybe she just has like an idea for a children’s book. She doesn’t know what she even needs to make that happen. She just has an idea. And she comes across your account. And your account is logos, and website design and UI UX. And, you know, there’s some illustrations like popping up here and there. But it’s, it’s hard to find it’s hard to find the fact that you even do illustration. Then there’s another illustrator that shows lots of different shots of like, illustrating things doesn’t have to be books, but just illustrating things illustrating story type things. Which one do you think she’s going to gravitate to? Yeah. And you could say, Oh, well, I don’t have all those clients. Well, you do have the ability to create something that will show them what you can do. And I have fallen out of this a little bit myself, just because I’ve been trying to get the coaching the coaching thing up a bit more. But I still have in the back of my mind that when I’m ready to start doing more design client work again, I’m going to start showing more book cover and music designs again, because that’s what I love. Like that’s what I could do forever. So that’s the other question I guess I meant to say earlier is if you could do one thing. Like if you could just create design, photograph, paint, whatever it is that you do one kind of thing forever. What would that one thing be? And there’s probably a hint somewhere in there as to like, what you should be doing. So, anyways, personal projects are like, the best way to fill your portfolio to show people what you do. And you also like have the ability to just tackle topics that you love. So if you want social justice, and you’re an illustrator, you can illustrate that if you’re a lettering artist, you could take that same topic for any number of creative jobs, titles, whatever, and take the things that you are passionate about, and show people your work.

Julie Haider  30:48  

And that connects back to what we talked about when we are talking about finding your target market is putting out your values and the things you’re passionate about. Like that’s a really great way to do it. Yeah. So

Brandi Sea  30:59  

Yeah, it’s a win win, win win win win from The Office, win win win win. Yeah. Yeah. 

Julie Haider  31:09  

Yeah, I think that ties into talking about it when you’re mentioning the grunt test, because not just the visual grunt test. It’s also like, can they tell from what you’re saying? If you’re just kind of like, I’m a designer hire me. That’s not Yeah. Yeah, that’s just not it’s not very persuasive. First of all, it’s not informative. And people just need to like, instantly be able to see what you do and like, what are you specifically offering to them?

Brandi Sea  31:40  

Yeah, and I’ve seen, I’ve seen way too many people honestly. approach it like, well, I put out I said that, like, I’m open for business, I put out a logo design. And in my caption, I said, here’s what I like, here’s what I did. And here’s my email. I’m open for business. Like, because that’s really compelling.

Julie Haider  32:06  

That’s like, if you had a physical store, and you put the open sign on, that’s it. Well, if you’ve not done any, you know, marketing or anything like how, you know, maybe people are walking by with, they’re like, What is this place? 

Brandi Sea  32:19  

Yeah exactly. So by talking about it, talking about it, does two things, it first and foremost, helps you understand what you do. And that sound, that may sound silly. But when you are forced to tell somebody that has no idea what the heck you do what you do, it forces you to think about it in a completely different way. Now, I’m not saying that, that you should always write that way. Because if you’re talking to your ideal audience, you shouldn’t have to dumb it down. But you don’t know what person might encounter you. That may be your target audience that just doesn’t have a clue about like, how to talk about it, like we were talking about in the SEO episode. It’s like, well, how will they search for me? Like they don’t know. They might not know what a design strategist is. They just know that their design process sucks. And they need help. Yeah, and they have creative block.

Julie Haider  33:14  

So a great way to, if you’re like, looking for ways ways to talk about things is to start with the questions that they’re going to have and start answering those. And you don’t have to do it in like a boring FAQ thing, like not everybody’s going to click on that page, like sprinkle it in throughout your website, put captions every once in a while like that through your social media posts. Like there’s so much content that you can create, that’s going to be talking in a strategic and like all encompassing way about your brand.

Brandi Sea  33:47  

Jasmine Star says talk about your business without talking about your business. Yeah.

Julie Haider  33:54  

Yeah, I mean, there’s just so many things. So we touched on, like, sprinkling in information about your values that people are going to connect with, that has, you know, more to do with you as a person than like, actually the work that you do, but people still connect with that. And then so obviously, Brandi and I are really big fans of story brand, but I think an incredibly important way to present instead of just being like I design book covers, hire me. Yeah. You’re you need to walk the person you’re talking to, which is your target market, walk them through the story of them. selves, not yours isn’t about you like yes, you want to put some information out there. So they at least like know who they’re potentially working with. But it really is about them. And if they feel like they’re being heard, and you’re showing them like they’re in that problem stage right now. Where they’re trying to get to the end, but maybe they don’t even know what the end actually looks like and if you can say, I see where you’re at, I see the struggles that you’re dealing with, and show them like the road to get to the end and specifically what the end is not just like, you’ll be happier here dreams will come true.

Brandi Sea  35:16  

Grab on to that, like, what does that specifically look like? How specifically do you help me? Just tell me like, Yeah, I just want to know any, any person I’ve ever paid personally for… Whether it’s like, a small mentorship programme, or I spent I did, I actually spent some money on a Jasmine Star, like, not, it’s like a boot camp type of thing for a short

bit. Because I knew what I was getting going into it. It was very clear.

She always says like, hey, boo, boo or whatever, like, here. I know that you feel this way. Yeah, but you don’t have to. Here’s why. And after you do this XYZ with me, and this course, you will feel this way about your business. And it’s like, okay, yeah, here’s my money. Take my money, cuz. 

Julie Haider  36:10  

Yeah, exactly. Cuz you’re like, yeah, I want that.

Brandi Sea  36:12  

You, you get me you understand as like a female business owner where I’m at. And so it was like, this is an investment. It wasn’t money, I just had to blow. It’s not like, I’m just like waiting around waiting for like, oh, where will I spend my money today? Like, right? And so think about how you would feel when you are looking for something that you need, and then think about what you offer? And it doesn’t have to be a course, like if you are truly just looking for more illustration work in the children’s books sphere. What problem? Do you solve for people? Maybe it’s that Do you like, do you have an idea but you you, like don’t know how to take it from your head and put it like out visually? That’s totally a problem. Because I know lots of writers that have that issue. Like, I have an idea, but I don’t know what to do with it. So it sits there. And then you are alleviating some problem by what you do as a creative.

Julie Haider  37:13  

Yeah. And how amazing does it feel when when somebody is like expressing that they hear you? And they understand what you’re going through? And then they’re there to help you like in any facet of life where you’re like, yes, oh, my gosh, this is what I’ve been waiting for. So there’s a huge amount of power in that. And yeah, I think the story brand way of presenting what you do is incredibly, it also takes a lot of pressure off of you because then you’re not wondering like what should I be saying, right? Or like many of us feel very awkward like being salesy. And you don’t have to be that way, because you’re not talking about yourself. Or you’re talking about the client. 

Brandi Sea  37:53  

Yes, yes, absolutely. So I don’t remember exactly where in, we record these kind of all over the place, and not necessarily in any specific order. So if we have already recorded with Eric, he is my own story brand guide that we interview, we either are set to interview him later after this

episode

airs or we have already either way, you should probably find that and check it out. Because it is bound to be an awesome conversation. A little bit more of a deep dive. And yes, we are fans here. I used it to completely revamp all my stuff when I shifted over to being a strategist and course creator and stuff like that. So yeah, there’s nothing like being paid to do the kind of work that you love. And you will not like if you get sick of it. Maybe that’s time to shift into something different because if you’re doing what you love, that’s okay, too. There’s, there’s no hard fast rule that says, like, well, I said I was an independent Creative Director for 10 years. I can’t move I can’t move over because people think that’s all I do. Nah, you can do what you want.

Julie Haider  39:02  

Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Brandi Sea  39:03  

I hope you guys leave this episode feeling empowered and wanting to figure out how to do more work that you really love so you can do more of it and get more clients.

Again, that was Polo and Pan with Pays Imaginaire. You can find this song and lots of other inspiring music on our Spotify playlist. Just search music from design speaks. Alright everybody, that’s our episode for today. If you enjoy this show and want to support us, become one of our exclusive patrons over at patreon.com/designspeaks where you’ll have access to some extended episodes and fun bonus content. Design speaks is produced by Kenneth Kniffin and Dakota Cook. Audio production by The Podcast Babes. Thanks to Colin from Vespertine for theme music, you can find Vespertine on Apple Music and Spotify. Design Speaks is a project of Brandi Sea Design. It is recorded and produced in the shadow of the watermelon pink sandia mountains in Albuquerque, New Mexico. You can leave us a note on Instagram @designspeakspodcast and you can find all current and past episodes at designspeakspodcast.com. Thanks again for listening. Until next time.