Episode Transcription: Design Speaks Podcast – Episode 188

BrandiSea (00:00:00) – I’m still a little bit winging it on the content of your book because I did not have time to read through as much as I hoped. But I think I.

James Martin (00:00:06) – Wrote it, I wrote it, and I winged the whole thing. So don’t you worry about it.

BrandiSea (00:00:11) – Perfect. Well, then we are a pair this morning. We are a.

James Martin (00:00:15) – Pair of wingers, so it’s all good.

BrandiSea (00:00:16) – I love it. That’s how I live my life these days. Hello and welcome to Design Speaks. I’m Randy Sie and I’m thrilled to be your personal creative director, your quirky, no nonsense guide to all things design. We’ll uncover how to find uncommon sources of inspiration, dig in to design, process and even chat with other amazing creatives in the industry. If you’re ready to get inspired, explore powerful design strategies and level up your design game like never before. You’re in the right place. It’s time to take control of your creativity. Let’s go. James Martin is here with me today from the afternoon. And it is morning where I am.

BrandiSea (00:01:00) – We’re going to get this straight. So, James, please introduce yourself. You are all over the place and you’ve got lots of amazing people following you. But for those who do not follow you and who may not know who you are, please introduce yourself.

James Martin (00:01:16) – Crikey. Um. Hello. Firstly, um. But yeah, my name for anybody that doesn’t know me is made by James. Well, my my actual name. I always get the wrong way around. People call me Made by James all the time. But my actual name, which my mummy gave me, is James Martin. But many of you may Know Me is made by James on Instagram, YouTube and through my book that I’ve just published on Logo Design and Creativity. So yeah, I am here. I am a I am. Check it out. There it is. Yeah. Cool. Nice.

BrandiSea (00:01:54) – Glad you both cameras just in case.

James Martin (00:01:56) – I love that. Um, so, yeah, basically. I mean, I’m. I’m a normal creative with a big dream.

James Martin (00:02:03) – I suppose that’s. That’s all I am. Um, I started off, you know, I’ve been a creative for a very, very long time. I wouldn’t say creative artists started off as an artist, found my way loosely into graphic design, and now I’ve niched down into logo design and now it’s just gone crazy. So yeah, but I’ll say that that kind of that journey has taken almost two decades. Yeah. Hasn’t happened overnight. So.

BrandiSea (00:02:32) – So when did you start being paid for your creativity?

James Martin (00:02:37) – Oh.

James Martin (00:02:38) – I would say I got my first design job, my first agency job 17, 18 years ago now. Okay. So I was a young buck mid 20s, um, mid to early 20s, um, and got a part time job at a design studio while I was at uni. And I did everything and I was crap at everything. But we all.

BrandiSea (00:03:06) – Are at first. That’s we all, that’s how it goes.

James Martin (00:03:09) – I’m still a little bit shit now, to be fair. So we can’t be.

BrandiSea (00:03:13) – Great at everything. James We just can’t be graded everything.

James Martin (00:03:16) – You should see me doing the gardening. I’m rubbish at it. So this is what I can draw. But no. Yeah. So I think it’s. Yeah, it’s been John I mean it’s, you know, I’m only just getting started, which is probably the most exciting thing for me. You know, I’m almost on year. Yeah. Year eight, 17, 18, almost two decades in the industry and only feel like right now that I am finding your stride.

BrandiSea (00:03:41) – Yeah.

James Martin (00:03:42) – Yeah. I’ve like, finding my groove. And the problem is, as soon as I find my groove now I get too comfortable and try and shake it up again because I hate feeling comfortable.

BrandiSea (00:03:51) – So the way I feel like professional creatives, you know, people like us that do this for a living, that’s kind of a blessing and a curse for both of them. You know, it’s like on one hand, it’s really great to not get too comfortable because we always want to learn something new.

BrandiSea (00:04:07) – We want to keep growing and changing. But on the other hand, it’s like, why can’t I just be happy being successful? Like I’m good, like I’m making money, I’m doing cool things, why can’t I just be happy here? I’ve been doing it as long as you. Well, a little longer than you. Yeah, I’ve been doing. This will be year 21 for me. So right around, right around that same, you know, love that two decade thing where we’ve we’ve seen some stuff we’ve seen.

James Martin (00:04:33) – Well, we’ve seen we grew up in a world design world without social media. So that’s always, um, and I think that’s the best thing that could have happened to us, to be fair. So yeah, um.

James Martin (00:04:44) – Absolutely.

James Martin (00:04:45) – It’s, I think it’s a, it’s a funny old this is, I’ll tell you what I mean. I mean, that’s why it’s so important, you know, I’m a, you know, I’ve read or watched sorry, a masterclass by Bob Iger who was the he’s the old CEO of Disney.

James Martin (00:04:58) – And he he’s.

BrandiSea (00:04:59) – Watched that as well. It is.

James Martin (00:05:01) – Amazing. Very poignant. And it said that kind of resonated with me was having like one foot in the present and one foot in the future. Yes. You know, and I think it’s so important for creatives to not sit still because like you said, you know, I could I could happily, like really happily sit in my office all day. It’s lovely office.

BrandiSea (00:05:22) – It is a lovely office. It’s very curated.

James Martin (00:05:25) – Yeah.

James Martin (00:05:26) – It’s not really, it’s. Well, just shut up.

BrandiSea (00:05:28) – No it’s colours you’ve got like your brand colours going real.

James Martin (00:05:32) – I’ve, I’ve got, I’ve got you know a big like branding believe it or not which is so it’s um, um but you know I said like I could, like I said like quite happily sit here and you know, I’ve got fully stacked, you know, I’ve got clients booked in for July, you know, almost August now, so I could quite happily sit. Just create cool stuff and create logos all day, every day.

James Martin (00:05:54) – I mean, that was my dream five years ago. But as I’ve grown and as I’ve evolved and as my, you know, as I see things changing within the industry and as I change myself, I’m like, okay, well, what more can I personally bring? What impact can I bring to the industry? That’s what that’s a big driver for me now is what how do I want to be remembered? You know, what impact can I bring to other creatives? You know, how can I help other creators? What can I do to help other creatives? And then obviously the book started to happen and I’ve got a course dropping and so I’m kind of molding still fully stacked on the agency side. But now I’m like, okay, like Side Hustle made by James. Okay, so what can what can he do? Because it’s almost like that kind of permission slip for me because. It doesn’t really matter if it does well or not because it’s a side hustle. So I’m just going. I’m just going all in.

James Martin (00:06:51) – But the thing is, my side hustle now makes more money than my main hustle.

James Martin (00:06:54) – Isn’t that funny?

James Martin (00:06:55) – Yeah, baby. Maybe I should put.

James Martin (00:06:57) – Maybe that into this. Maybe that’s my.

BrandiSea (00:06:58) – Main hustle now.

James Martin (00:07:00) – Yeah, Maybe I’m just. Maybe I’m just hustling. I don’t know. I’m not. Yeah, I’m not big on the word hustle because I think it has been a little bit. Kind of. I’m not into this hustle culture, but a side hustle is basically just something that was initially just for me, you know, just sharing my ideas, sharing how I come up with stuff, sharing my process with people, because, you know, I couldn’t ever really find anybody that was doing that, especially on Instagram. It was quite my these are my ideas and I will not tell you how I came up with it as I was like, you know, have it all. You know, this is this is how I think this is what I came up with. And I really started to realize that start to help other designers like and I thought, well, let me try and lean into this.

James Martin (00:07:41) – And like I said, it was like for me, it’s a way to get work if I share my process, clients can see my process and then they go, Oh, I like your process, I want to work with you. I’m like.

James Martin (00:07:51) – Hop on. Yeah, let’s do it.

BrandiSea (00:07:53) – Let’s do it right.

James Martin (00:07:55) – The double the double win is obviously that, you know, it’s grown an audience of designers and you know, it’s helped other designers and don’t just share creative work or share a lot of stuff that’s personal. You know, share life and keep it as real as possible and as open and honest as possible. So, you know, because at the end of day, I’m just another dude with a beard creating designs, you know?

James Martin (00:08:21) – Me, too. Just kidding. Yeah. You’re just another.

James Martin (00:08:24) – Dude with a beard. You’re right. Yeah.

James Martin (00:08:25) – Um, but, you know.

James Martin (00:08:26) – But much better hair than me, I must admit. That’s why mine’s always under.

BrandiSea (00:08:29) – Oh, you know, I just.

BrandiSea (00:08:31) – I get bored easily, so I do a I do a lot of things with my hair. I tell my husband all the time, I can’t. I can just, like, go do photo shoots like a lot of. You know, whether it’s influencers or Instagram, people that like have a thing they can like go on and do branding shoots and use those photos like for years and, you know, we’ll just keep them guessing. When did this photo happen?

James Martin (00:08:54) – Yeah, Yeah, you can you can figure out when the picture was taken by the color of your hair.

James Martin (00:08:59) – Yeah.

BrandiSea (00:09:00) – So I have.

James Martin (00:09:01) – An Instagram profile.

BrandiSea (00:09:01) – I wanted to tell you, like, part of the reason that I really wanted to. To talk to you. Well, there’s a couple of things. One is, and it’s. It’s got to be this common denominator that we have of when we started designing. I feel that very deeply. And yeah, the fact that the way you go about ideating is very similar to how I go about ideating in some ways, yeah.

BrandiSea (00:09:27) – I always start with sketching. I am not what I would say is an artist I can draw. I don’t, I don’t enjoy it. I can put out sketches just you know, thumbnails just enough to make me understand what I’m going to be doing later. But pencil, right? Like I’ve got, I’ve got a jars full of like physical tools I use before I ever touch the computer. And so that was something that I saw in you that you’re right. I don’t think that enough. I’ll say this creative influencers in general design influencers are pushing enough of this idea of the value and exploring with physical tools and how much better that is for your creativity. So I really enjoyed that about you and I felt like we had that in common and on top of that. Sharing. You know, I really think that people that have been doing design as a profession for 10 to 20 years are sort of a left out group of creative professionals. Everyone is trying to talk to people that have been in this like six months to five years.

BrandiSea (00:10:45) – It’s like, here’s all the super basics. Here’s, you know, all of the things that you need to know, which I know we also do because those people need help as well. But I feel like people that are in our range, we also have things and problems creatively and major milestones that we’re trying to work through that not a lot of people speak to. And so I think that I really was interested in your authenticity in your journey at the point you are now. And I think that that’s really valuable because there’s just there’s tons of content out there for people that are just starting. But I really my goal and something that I am really wanting to help people with is people that have been doing this a while, like we know what we’re doing, but also who’s here to help us be encouraged. And so I’ve been encouraged by you and I wanted to talk to you because I also saw you were doing this book and was like, wait a second, he’s got a lot of the same processes that I do and this is super cool.

BrandiSea (00:11:49) – So we have to talk.

James Martin (00:11:50) – Love that.

James Martin (00:11:51) – I mean, I think I think it’s I think it’s quite interesting. Firstly, like back onto the drawing thing. You know, I, you know, I always try and tell people that, you know, not to see drawing as art, you know, see it as more of an idea generation to because I speak to a lot of designers, young and old, and they’re like, I just can’t draw. I just can’t draw. It just doesn’t look good. And I’m like, That’s bad. If it doesn’t look good because it’s all about the idea. Can you see the idea working? So right. I think that’s I think that’s a problem that a lot of creatives struggle with is like, I’m not going to draw because it doesn’t look good. You know, you should see like my sketchbooks before my sketchbooks. Do you mean I have stages? I basically have like kid pencil.

James Martin (00:12:35) – Drawings like.

James Martin (00:12:36) – This, just trying to see if it works.

James Martin (00:12:38) – But it’s the.

BrandiSea (00:12:38) – Idea.

James Martin (00:12:40) – It’s an idea generation tool. It’s not that for any other reason. It’s not there to, you know, look good on a wall. It’s basically kind of go, okay, I can see if I can actually if I get this down, I can maybe combine those together. Let me take that idea further. It’s an idea generation tool. But and I think like you said, I think I do think there’s a lot of designers that think obviously technology has changed the kind of pencil sketchbook paper scenario dramatically. And, you know, I understand because obviously you can now draw an iPad. You can you can do all that, but it’s.

James Martin (00:13:17) – Not the same.

James Martin (00:13:19) – I personally don’t I personally don’t think it is the same, but I’m also not I’m personally not big on. Yeah, my process is my process and it works for me and I can understand how some people don’t have that. You know, that’s absolutely fine. Like there is so many different ways to create stuff and so many different ways to get to an end goal.

James Martin (00:13:39) – From my point of view, the reason why I love the drawing side of it is the speed. You know, I can draw. I can draw ten ideas in under a couple of minutes.

BrandiSea (00:13:53) – Yes, absolutely.

James Martin (00:13:54) – And I think that really helps. And for me as well, you know, although it’s controversial, as lots of people say, you shouldn’t have an emotional attachment to your work, But I like building that emotional attachment to my work, you know, because I know if I can fall in love with it, I can get the client to fall in love of it. And I like I’m a big believer in narrative and storytelling and and journey. And if I can show them a concept that basically comes from nothing, all of my sketches, how I how, why, the reason that I chose it, the story from nothing to something, it’s much easier for me to sell that concept because they can I can talk them through my decision making, how it relates to their brief, how it relates to their audience, why I’ve done what I’ve done rather than just shoving a finished logo.

BrandiSea (00:14:46) – Oh, yes.

James Martin (00:14:47) – Yeah. You know, I think people I think people misunderstand the power. That hand drawn. You know, we’ve all got, you know, we’ve all got crap haven’t we, in our office. I mean you can see half of it, you know, but all.

James Martin (00:15:00) – Of these, you.

BrandiSea (00:15:01) – Can’t even see half of.

James Martin (00:15:02) – Mine. Yeah. Yeah.

James Martin (00:15:03) – But all of these are like hand drawn, you know, These are hand drawn rather than prints. You know what I mean? I think I’ve always, you know, we’ve always got maybe it’s a scarf knitted by a loved one or a tall that’s been chiseled by a friend or a husband or something that somebody has made for us. And we always have much more of an emotional attachment to that object then you will something that you’ve just smashed out on Amazon or bought.

James Martin (00:15:31) – Quick Oh.

BrandiSea (00:15:32) – Absolutely.

James Martin (00:15:33) – Yeah.

James Martin (00:15:33) – And I think logos are the same. I truly believe that if you can tap into that, like use emotional intelligence in a clever way to tell stories and to Aida, it becomes a lot easier to sell the product or the asset that you’re trying to to give to somebody.

James Martin (00:15:51) – For me, no, and I agree.

BrandiSea (00:15:54) – And I think I do. I see like the balance there. Right? Because we know we both you and I have like these processes that we know, like these are like proven things like this. We know from A to Z, from A when we talk to the client to Z, when we hand that thing over and it’s all done and finished, we know this thing that we do works. Those steps. We know that this works, we know you know, and there’s there’s studies that have been conducted that say, you know, even just writing notes to do lists, whatever the case may be with an actual pencil and paper actually makes connections in your brain. That does not happen if you are using a digital tool, whether even if it’s, you know, I have an iPad, I use it all the time, but I don’t it doesn’t have the same quality. I’m not quick like I am with a pencil and all of those things that you’re saying.

BrandiSea (00:16:44) – So on one hand, you know, everyone has their own process, but in my mind I’m always like, Well, why wouldn’t you want to be like, have better ideas and do a little, you know? Well, as.

James Martin (00:16:55) – You say, it’s like doodling is proven to increase creativity. It’s it’s scientific fact. I mean, it’s not it’s not some airy.

James Martin (00:17:03) – Fairy, right?

James Martin (00:17:04) – Like I’m trying to blind you by because I do it. It’s actually a scientific fact.

James Martin (00:17:10) – Is.

James Martin (00:17:11) – That it helps. Yeah. And you can go and read on the Internet about it. I’m not lying.

James Martin (00:17:15) – Right? No, we’re not.

BrandiSea (00:17:16) – Lying, folks.

James Martin (00:17:17) – Yeah, and that’s it.

James Martin (00:17:18) – So I think like you say. But, you know, I think it comes down to, like you say, I mean, I was you know, I think it does. You know, we talk about processes and we talk about creating your own style and your processes. And, you know, I often kind of you know, when I first started, when I first became a logo designer.

James Martin (00:17:36) – So you gotta remember before that I was a I was a teacher, I was an art student, was a druggie dropout. You know, that doesn’t matter so much but wanted to addict part of your journey. That’s part of my journey. Yeah. Um, I was, I did animation. I did a tattoo apprenticeship. I did web design, did photography. I did everything, you know, illustration, everything before I niched down into logo design. And I used to think that when I became a logo design, I had to forget all of that, you know, But the opposite, it is totally the opposite because everything that you see now has defined my style in logo design. I do, I do have I do feel like I can personally attach myself to any particular brief as long as it’s something within that I want to do, I will create a direction for that. I won’t take my style and put it on every single.

James Martin (00:18:38) – Oh, right. Of course it’s.

BrandiSea (00:18:40) – Not always appropriate and you know that.

James Martin (00:18:42) – Yeah.

James Martin (00:18:42) – Yeah. So that’s why I’ve always got like a quite illustrative approach. A lot of the stuff I like to do is quite hand-drawn, organic, you know, flowy, unique, rather than I still do the odd geometric stuff, but people are now starting to absorb to me for this. Like, just let your brain go wherever you want.

James Martin (00:19:02) – Yeah, okay. Yeah.

James Martin (00:19:04) – You know, because that’s the stuff they know that is going to be one of a kind. You know, there isn’t going to be anything like that out there. And I think.

James Martin (00:19:13) – The.

James Martin (00:19:13) – Reason as soon as I started to understand that tapping into my background as a tattoo artist, as a teacher, as an illustrator, as a web designer, having all that knowledge of web and having all that knowledge of animation, how it can work. So when I’m designing it and I finish it, I can already see it animated. I know how to continue that story. I know how to I know how it will respond and be a modular system to work on websites.

James Martin (00:19:39) – So all of these things, all of the past stuff that I’ve learned.

James Martin (00:19:44) – Yeah.

James Martin (00:19:45) – Is acquired knowledge over 20 years has helped me excel in my niche.

James Martin (00:19:50) – Absolutely.

James Martin (00:19:51) – Just by getting it all, you know, just really helps.

James Martin (00:19:55) – Yeah.

James Martin (00:19:56) – Process is massive. Process is power when it comes. When it comes down to it.

BrandiSea (00:20:00) – Yeah. And I always say that also, you know, the inspiration is in the process. Like that’s where you will find your most. The most inspiration you will have is when you have a habit, when you have a, you know, a way of doing things over and over, you start to train yourself and you will be better at your craft when you have, okay, I’m going to start this. But you said something you know about not being emotionally attached to your to your work. And I do think that there’s a balance there, too, because I do tell designers all the time, like, don’t get married to your ideas. But I do agree that when you have buy in and I think that this comes with experience, right? It’s it’s something that I would say is like educated intuition.

BrandiSea (00:20:48) – We have a sense after so many years of doing this for like, you know, when something’s going to work, you start sketching and, you know, the brief, you know the problem, you know, the audience you’re trying to appeal to, right? You know, all the things. And as you’re creating, you start to feel this is the like this is the one, this is going to work. And you know why? And you can explain that. And that is something that I think even a lot of experience designers don’t quite grasp all of the time is that you can’t just go to the client and say, you know. I really feel like this one works. And when they say, okay, I don’t really know how I how I feel about it, why does it work? And they say, you know, it just felt right. Yeah, if you can explain that and you can’t show your process, the story, the journey, they’re not going to get by in no matter what you do.

BrandiSea (00:21:45) – So if you can articulate those feelings and all of that, I think is super valuable. So I agree that, like, it’s not that you shouldn’t get emotionally involved with your work. It’s where does that come in? Are you just being, you know, defensive when they say, I don’t really know if this is working? And you go, No, it is just trust me, I’m the designer or you know how that goes.

James Martin (00:22:09) – Yeah, that’s.

James Martin (00:22:10) – Exactly what I wrote down here. I always like to make notes when we’re talking, but there’s a big difference between emotion and ego, you know? And I think that’s I think that’s the biggest thing I’ve definitely learned over, you know, I used to be ruled by my ego, you know, especially as a younger designer, you know, not very not when you’re very early, but, you know, when you’re like, Yeah, 4 or 5.

James Martin (00:22:29) – Yeah.

BrandiSea (00:22:30) – You feel like you’ve like, got it down.

James Martin (00:22:31) – Yeah, I.

James Martin (00:22:32) – Know, I know this industry inside out because I’ve been in.

James Martin (00:22:35) – It five years.

BrandiSea (00:22:36) – That’s like expert level.

James Martin (00:22:37) – Right it for.

James Martin (00:22:38) – I waited it for ages.

James Martin (00:22:40) – Yeah.

James Martin (00:22:40) – So I’d, I used to be ruled by my ego. I used to kind of like, well, you came to me. I’d never used to kind of get, like, hyper aggressive, but it would be like in my mind for sure, You’ve come to me, and now you’re telling me that it’s not right. You know not. How dare you?

BrandiSea (00:22:54) – How dare you? I was just going to say that. How you. You’re paying me. How dare you?

James Martin (00:22:58) – Exactly.

James Martin (00:22:59) – But over over the over the years, you know, dropping the ego has probably been the most powerful thing that I’ve done for for my design career. And, you know, I’ve always been big on collaborating with clients and giving my giving myself the ability to rethink, like continually allows me to continually grow if I just. Cracked at the same shit all the time. Told people it was right all the time.

James Martin (00:23:29) – I’d probably be unhappy most of the time. It’s probably still might make fairly good money, but, you know, I wouldn’t be, you know, opening my mind to the possibility of change. It wouldn’t be opening my mind to other people’s ideas, other people’s perceptions and stuff and dropping. I think emotionally when I talk about emotional attachment. I mean, like you say, I look at it and I go, Oh, that’s really good. I really like it. I think it’s going to work here. Or we work for the audience. It’ll work across all the bits. I know it’s going to work here. If a client then says to me, you know, Oh, I’m not just not too sure about it, I’m okay. I’m like, okay, that’s that’s not a problem. Let’s let’s focus on what it is that you’re not keen on and what it is you’re not keen on. And then we go for development stages ultimately, you know, I know that that’s a great design, but I also know that I don’t know all the answers.

James Martin (00:24:21) – And often when a client goes to me, you know, when I’m in creative mode, I’m in, you know, everything is shut off. Nothing can touch me. I’m in my little box and I’m just going, hell, hell, ever, you know, getting this thing down, nailing it, thinking it’s great. Sometimes those blinkers can stop you from seeing stuff other people can see.

James Martin (00:24:41) – Yeah, absolutely.

James Martin (00:24:42) – So that’s why. So that’s where, like, it’s really important, I think, to kind of. Yeah. So do you have emotion, love for your work, love what you create, but be open to change and be open to what? What could possibly be wrong with it? You know, I go through this process now where I create a design that I love and then I smash it to bits. You know, I turn it upside down, I invert it, I put it in shapes, you know, Is there something I’ve missed here? Read the brief again, right?

James Martin (00:25:09) – Yeah.

James Martin (00:25:10) – I’m constantly kind of going, What have I missed? Is there something Hey, have I spelt it right? You know.

James Martin (00:25:15) – That’s always been there.

James Martin (00:25:18) – Yeah, been there a few times as a dyslexic. Um, but, you know, there’s lots of stuff like that. I think that’s where emotion versus ego is very different. I think you do need to love your work. Otherwise what’s the.

James Martin (00:25:29) – Point? And why are.

BrandiSea (00:25:30) – You even doing.

James Martin (00:25:31) – This? Why?

James Martin (00:25:32) – Why go and be something else? Jolly mean. But you know, ego wise, I think it’s getting over the love for yourself, you know, thinking that you’ve made it, thinking that you know it all because beautiful things happen when you collaborate with people. Yeah.

BrandiSea (00:25:48) – I agree. And I think that there’s there’s just so much to be said for the fact that even though we’ve got, you know, an in-depth brief, even though we’ve had various conversations with these clients, you know, we’re working with them for weeks, months, sometimes years, depending on what it is that you’re creating.

BrandiSea (00:26:05) – And we can sort of start to think, well, we know this just as good as they do. But there’s definitely been times where I present something and very, very small things ultimately in the end. But where they question and when upon further investigation, realizing, of course, they know their audience better than I do. Yeah, they know you know their goals better than I do. Yes, we are collaborating. Yes, I’m here to help them achieve those goals through visual design. But ultimately there are things they know more that I need to trust them on, you know, And it’s not just like, well, I don’t I just don’t like purple. I just don’t like it. Like if.

James Martin (00:26:47) – It’s that conversation, that’s.

BrandiSea (00:26:49) – A different conversation. But if it’s like, you know.

James Martin (00:26:51) – Exactly.

BrandiSea (00:26:51) – Yeah, this isn’t going to appeal to them. And we know this because case studies, you know, target market research, whatever. The fact is I’m like, okay, yeah, you’re right.

BrandiSea (00:27:03) – Let’s let’s work through that. So there’s a totally different level of like, I just don’t like this and I don’t know why. Or here’s some things.

James Martin (00:27:12) – Yeah, that’s why I always say there’s a different big difference between there’s a bad client and a difficult client, you know what I mean? So people think that they’re the same, but they’re very, very, very, very different. Yeah. Bad clients will shout at you, swear at you, tell you’re an idiot, bitch whine. A difficult client will just ask questions, right?

James Martin (00:27:31) – I mean, not.

BrandiSea (00:27:32) – Bad if they.

James Martin (00:27:33) – Ask, but it’s not. It’s not.

James Martin (00:27:34) – Bad. You know.

James Martin (00:27:35) – It’s our job.

BrandiSea (00:27:36) – To answer those questions. Like, if you can’t answer those questions and you’re upset, the problem is you.

James Martin (00:27:43) – Yeah.

James Martin (00:27:43) – And I’ll tell you what, you will never as far as you get in your career, as far as you get to pick and choose your clients, there will always be the odd bad one. There will always be the odd, difficult one.

James Martin (00:27:56) – It happens, but this is why you have contracts and stuff in place, you know? Absolutely. Everybody can be nicely nicey on email. When you get them deep into the process starter, you start to really meet the real people.

BrandiSea (00:28:07) – Yeah, absolutely. So something else I wanted to talk about a little bit. So you we were talking about, you know, you said some things about finding your style and things like that. That’s a question that I get from people a lot is like one, like how do you find inspiration and how do you how do you find your your style? And something that that I always talk about is like, you have to know what you are interested in and know yourself, right? So finding your visual voice isn’t just about like going on Pinterest and like, Oh, what things appeal to me. What do I like? Oh, I like flowers and geometric shapes. So that must be my style. And it’s more of like, okay, well are you interested? Like, do sci fi novels interest you? How about, you know, what cities do you visit that inspire you and why? And understanding the deeper, you know, things that you actually enjoy in real life and figuring those out.

BrandiSea (00:29:10) – Like you said, you’ve got all these various creative pursuits that you’ve had throughout your life as most creatives that have been doing it. As long as we have photography and, you know, animation and all those things, trying to tap into those things. So my question I guess is just like. How do you explain that to people? I know how I explain that to people, but like, how do you go about explaining to to people with the way you do things? How do you find your style, your creative voice, your visual voice, all of that stuff?

James Martin (00:29:45) – Yeah. So for me, it’s the four P’s.

James Martin (00:29:51) – So that’s a new book.

BrandiSea (00:29:52) – I marked.

James Martin (00:29:53) – It. That is that is in my book. It is in my book.

James Martin (00:29:55) – There are combination of three with an overarching one. So personality, um, passion and process, all surrounded by patience. So. I think I think people try and force their style. I think people try. And I think this is why trends are so dangerous.

James Martin (00:30:19) – And you see you see a lot of designers jumping on trends and then jumping on the next one. And this is why I worry about things like Instagram reels and because people aren’t creating for themselves, they’re creating for engagement and content. And then what’s going to happen is there’ll be three years down the line, have no idea who they are, no idea what they do, and then they’re going to be lost and probably fail. Which is why I keep trying to tell people, don’t let it, for example, Instagram dictate your content. You know, just because they said they’re going to push it doesn’t mean you should do it. You know, do you want to get known for reals or do you want to get known for your logo work? It’s up to you. But no, it’s what I want to get known for. Right? So I think it’s really important to understand that, you know, a style doesn’t come overnight, happen overnight. So let’s let’s break it down. So passion, you know, so for me, I have a passion, you know, for logo design, you know, but I also have a passion for creativity, drawing, tattoo illustration, you know that General bubble Skulls, Roses, you know, a bit of a punk punk rock, you know, that’s kind of those are my passions, but that also runs into my personality.

James Martin (00:31:33) – You know, I’m, you know, I kind of, you know, I’m a generally happy soul. I’m honest. You know, I, I try and tell people how it is. Sometimes that doesn’t go well. Sometimes I don’t.

James Martin (00:31:45) – Know what that’s.

BrandiSea (00:31:45) – Like.

James Martin (00:31:46) – Not exactly. Yeah. You know, and then there’s obviously the process of like, how do I how do I create stuff? You know, even when I was, you know, with tattoo, it was always drawing with my illustration work, it was always sketchbook. I’ve always been in a sketchbook. I’ve always drawn to that process. So I’ve, you know, a combination of all those things plus time, patience, you know, my style has failed me. You know, I think I think, like I said, too many people try and jump on trends and force a style because of what’s in where if you just create, you lean into who you are and you lean into the stuff you like and you figure out your own way of creating stuff, that is what ultimately will show itself as a style, you know? And like I said, mine’s constantly evolving, but there’s still all the core elements are there, right?

BrandiSea (00:32:42) – You’re still there.

BrandiSea (00:32:42) – It’s sort of like your outfits change, but you are still.

James Martin (00:32:46) – Inside of you.

BrandiSea (00:32:47) – You’re still inside.

James Martin (00:32:48) – There. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

James Martin (00:32:51) – I see. I think it’s just, you know, I’ll get slightly better at thinking the more I do it, you know, the more I practice I’ll get better, better, slightly better at drawing. My ideas will theoretically get slightly better because by constantly training my brain, absolutely. But at the core of it, you know the things I love. The way I do those things and the person I am, they don’t change right that much. And, you know, I’m almost you know, I’m 38 now, so they’re not going to those aren’t going to change now. I might. You know, I love reading a lot more now. I love reading about psychology and mindset and habits, but those will come into my passions. And when what So what they’ll I will learn how to communicate better and that will help my process, you know? So learning more about me will help me kind of educate and lead my clients and designer friends through processes because I’ll be able to communicate better.

James Martin (00:33:53) – I’ll be able to coach them better because I’m learning more things about how the bad things I do and the good things.

James Martin (00:33:59) – Yeah, I mean.

BrandiSea (00:34:00) – Self awareness is one of one of those things that I think designers really need to understand is a huge. Bonus to their creative careers. Like, Yeah, knowing. Knowing your faults. Knowing the things that you are great at and being okay with not being great at everything and understanding those things. You’re right. Like it’s our job to communicate. That’s literally our number one job is to communicate something visually. And if we don’t know how to figure things out and communicate in other ways, it’s going to be a lot more difficult for us to do that in our work as well.

James Martin (00:34:41) – Yeah, I think, yeah, I always say I think, yeah, the self-worth, self-awareness, all of that, you know, is only been heightened by the access to information. Um, you know, you can, you’re constantly comparing yourself to people online because you’re constantly seeing other people’s work online.

James Martin (00:35:02) – You know, two, two decades, you would see the work that was in your office or in the, in the.

James Martin (00:35:08) – Library.

BrandiSea (00:35:08) – I have lots of design books.

James Martin (00:35:10) – Exactly. Yeah, me too. You know, and I think it’s, you know, I think it’s I think it’s more important than ever to look after yourself. And, you know, I think, you know, it’s easy for me to say I’m very comfortable with who am and I know it takes, but it’s taken me, like I said, 38 years to get here. And I think when you’re a 20 year old, 18, 19, 20 year old coming fresh out of college or trying to get any industry, it’s difficult not to compare yourself to somebody out to me because I even compare myself to the people who are been in the industry for 30, 40 years.

James Martin (00:35:45) – Yeah, it.

James Martin (00:35:46) – Never it never stops. You just learn to deal with that better.

James Martin (00:35:50) – Yeah, but.

James Martin (00:35:50) – The best way to do it is by, you know, really making a solid plan and understanding who you want to be and what what, what does, what does success mean to you personally.

James Martin (00:36:02) – And.

James Martin (00:36:02) – What does what do you want out of life? And if you can write all those things down and always have them to look at and check on and kind of, you know, you know, have them up on the wall, look up and go, Right, this is what I’m going to do this week. This is going to make me happy. This is what I want. By year five, this is what I want. By year ten, you’re constantly looking at your dream. Yeah.

James Martin (00:36:28) – You’re happiness. Yeah.

BrandiSea (00:36:29) – Do for yourself what you do for your clients.

James Martin (00:36:31) – Exactly.

James Martin (00:36:32) – Yeah. And I think that’s the problem, is that a lot of people get clouded by seeing the success of others. And because that’s the problem, you know, that’s why try and show a lot of failures because people only share their successes.

James Martin (00:36:44) – They only share.

James Martin (00:36:45) – How often they win and how many projects they’re doing and how great they are. And it’s difficult to kind of when you’re sitting there and you’re real well going, well, I had a project failure or I didn’t get that job.

James Martin (00:36:59) – Or.

James Martin (00:36:59) – Why didn’t the client like it? And all you’re seeing is everybody posting all the positive shit in their life. Yes, the social media is just this cloud of haze of, you know, there’s people posing in front of cars they don’t even know.

BrandiSea (00:37:13) – Oh, I know, I know.

James Martin (00:37:14) – I can’t even.

BrandiSea (00:37:15) – I don’t even follow anybody that does. I couldn’t even I couldn’t even do that.

James Martin (00:37:19) – Exactly.

James Martin (00:37:19) – So I think it’s really important to just I know it’s difficult, but trying to stay in your own lane and trying to just really concentrate and be passionate about what you want to achieve and then every day do something that takes you a step closer to that, you know, and you can evolve, you can pivot, you can you can go wherever you want. But, you know, creating that mission and that plan is a great way to make progress. And it’s something I wish I did earlier. So I made a plan like five years ago.

James Martin (00:37:52) – Agreed.

James Martin (00:37:53) – Yeah. And I’m already winning.

James Martin (00:37:54) – So it’s it’s so hard to.

BrandiSea (00:37:56) – Get there and realize that you can’t. We were talking before we started officially recording about like being wingers like was kind of winging it. But that doesn’t always that doesn’t always serve well when you’re trying to achieve stuff. So there’s there’s something to be said for planning and kind of winging it, too.

James Martin (00:38:12) – Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah. I think you have to have it.

James Martin (00:38:15) – But a lot of my plans are, you know, big, big audacious, You know, they’re like, you know, I want to be known when I die as one of the best logo designers. That’s, that’s one of my plans. You know, I want to be remembered. And do you know what? If I don’t quite get there, I’ll fall a little bit short. I’ll be all right with that. So I think it’s important to have, like, you know, you know, like what is what you would call like like a value proposition, which is like, how do you want to be remembered? You know, how do you want people to remember you and how do you want people to know you? And, you know, one of mine is, you know, somebody that created a positive impact on the industry, you know, and I didn’t have that ten years ago.

James Martin (00:39:01) – That’s that’s come from the last five years. And it’s growing every single year. And I know that when I would get up in the office, you. I would work hard at my logo design and work hard at helping designers, and I’m create content that help designers and write books that help designers, write courses that help designers. I know I’m one step closer to to bringing that impact that I want. You know, it’s a selfish one for me. It’s not for anybody else. But the beauty of it is if I do it, everybody else wins.

James Martin (00:39:32) – That’s right. That’s the kind. Yeah.

James Martin (00:39:34) – You win. So we all went, That’s great.

BrandiSea (00:39:36) – Okay, so let’s talk about this. Let’s talk really quickly. The most important question for me for you is this. Yeah, people can follow you, right? And get you’re not hiding a lot of stuff. You share tons of things. Yeah, I am huge on people purchasing design books and creative books and mindset books like physical books.

BrandiSea (00:39:58) – Like books that you can flip through. But I’ve had so much pushback like, Well, I can just look online. I can just follow people online, like tell people why it’s so important for them to buy this, why this is special.

James Martin (00:40:11) – Why this is special, this.

James Martin (00:40:12) – Well, you know, good question. I just feel like I’m in some sort of like Dragon’s den elevator pitch scenario right now. Um, but I think I mean, the reason I buy art, I could go online, find an artist’s work. Screen, grab it, print it out and put it up in my office. But that doesn’t help them jot me. So I go on to there. I go on to their page and I go on to their website and I buy a physical piece of art because it helps them. And I think it’s the same with books, you know, that book will help support me, which will allow me to continue to support people. Like the people that are reading the book.

James Martin (00:40:54) – John Mead. So I think it’s really like a like on Instagram isn’t enough, you know what I mean?

James Martin (00:40:59) – Yeah, yeah.

James Martin (00:40:59) – This creative world has to support each other. That book has got. You know, I mean, it’s 40 bucks. I think it’s even cheaper now. It’s been out for a while. I think it’s like 30 bucks now. You can get everything that I have learned. Tips, tricks, my failures, mistakes, my wins, how to come up with ideas, how to deal with creative block, how to, you know, deal with difficult clients. Everything that I have learned is in that book for the price of maybe like a few drinks out on an evening, which gives you fuck all headache.

James Martin (00:41:35) – Yeah, I mean.

James Martin (00:41:37) – So that book, you know, for 30 bucks, you know, you can learn from somebody that’s been there and done it and is making it in the industry, you know, And I think it’s about prioritizing. I always tell people like, you have to invest.

James Martin (00:41:50) – Yeah, I.

BrandiSea (00:41:51) – Was just about to use the word invest.

James Martin (00:41:54) – If you think buying computer games, buying a new pair of shoes, buying some Starbucks coffees, but a new hoodie is more important then your career and your future, then the book isn’t for you. But if you understand the power of spending some money now, that could make you thousands, if not millions, in the future. You know, really millions you could make and you can make millions as a designer. Um, then the books for you. There you go. That’s my elevator.

BrandiSea (00:42:26) – Pitch. Yes. And I will add. I am a huge fan of books on all of these things because in in my experience when I am looking for. You know, a creative boost, some motivation, some encouragement. It’s much more tactile. It’s much more meaningful to be able to go grab a book that I know has something that I can just open up. And I have I have got a page marked and I can just be like, you know what? I remember underlining this thing that was really helpful to me.

BrandiSea (00:43:03) – And I’m going to go back to that instead of being like, Where was that bookmark on that website, on that one article like five years ago? You know, there’s there’s just something different about it. And even when it comes to looking for layout inspiration or whatever, the case may be like, having a pile of books to look through just allows for so much more than just getting on the internet and scrolling forever. So I always tell you.

James Martin (00:43:32) – Less by less time.

James Martin (00:43:34) – The less time we’re on this, the better for your anxiety.

James Martin (00:43:37) – As well. Yeah, for.

BrandiSea (00:43:38) – Everything.

James Martin (00:43:38) – For everything.

James Martin (00:43:39) – For your mental health, for your eyes, for your mind. The less time you spent on that thing, that device, the better.

BrandiSea (00:43:48) – High fives are super awkward, but virtual high five because all of that five full high four.

James Martin (00:43:57) – So thank you for that. Important.

BrandiSea (00:43:59) – Well, I’m so sorry that we have to cut this off because. Right. We could just sit here all day and just like let people pop in on our conversation.

James Martin (00:44:09) – Well, he.

James Martin (00:44:10) – Basically I mean, you just give me another day and we’ll do round two because.

James Martin (00:44:14) – Yes, we’ve.

James Martin (00:44:14) – Even scratched the surface yet.

BrandiSea (00:44:16) – We didn’t. And I, I really want to maybe just do like a full chat on creative block because I don’t think it’s a thing.

James Martin (00:44:25) – I don’t think it’s real.

James Martin (00:44:27) – And I can tell you. Yeah, it’s. Yes.

James Martin (00:44:30) – It’s all comes down to habits and routines and and process So maybe we’ll do that next week.

James Martin (00:44:37) – That sounds.

James Martin (00:44:38) – I think. I think not. Maybe next week, maybe.

James Martin (00:44:41) – Whatever next.

BrandiSea (00:44:41) – Time. Let’s not put too high of expectations on this here.

James Martin (00:44:45) – But I’ve always a big believer like, you know, we’ve got to remember that, especially with creative block, we are humans. You know, I always like to think like, you know, think of like the best sportsman on the planet, you know, somebody like Cristiano Ronaldo. Sometimes he’ll go onto the football pitch and he just won’t look as if he’s there.

James Martin (00:45:04) – He won’t be as good. That just makes him human. Other days he’ll go on there and smash it. He’s still the best player in the world. It’s like us when we go into the office. Some days we’re just not on it. And that’s okay.

James Martin (00:45:16) – We’re just we’re still showing up.

BrandiSea (00:45:17) – So let’s let this be a teaser for the next time and we’ll talk at length about Creative Block and the fact that it’s not real. Let’s just go.

James Martin (00:45:27) – I’m in it. I’m in it to win it.

BrandiSea (00:45:30) – All right, James. Well, thank you so much for all of you out there, you guys, you all need to go buy this book. It’s really incredible. I wish that we were closer so I could have you sign it, because it is. But it’s got your signature all over it. It’s very curated. It’s really beautiful to look at. Also, it’s not just great info, it’s really well designed. And I am a huge fan of this book going on my list.

BrandiSea (00:45:55) – This was awesome.

James Martin (00:45:56) – Bye bye.

BrandiSea (00:46:00) – Thank you so much for tuning in to Design Speaks. Before you go. I wanted to remind you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. If you enjoyed the episode reviews, help the podcast grow and improve and also lets me know what you’re liking so I can bring you more of it. If you know someone who would like this podcast, please share it with them. I’d love to keep growing this community of designers and creatives. If you want to stay up to date with me on social media, you can find me everywhere just by searching at Brandeis. And don’t forget to check out my website, Brandy Kgw.com for more content and resources related to the topics on the show, plus a link to my course on the strategic process. Thanks again for listening and I’ll catch you on the next episode.

*Vesperteen * (00:46:49) – Yeah. Where we want to.

BrandiSea (00:47:00) – Shout out to Colin of Vesper team for providing the amazing theme music at the beginning and end of the show. You can find him on all major streaming platforms or visit his website at Vesper Music.

BrandiSea (00:47:10) – Com Design Speaks podcast is a project of brand designs and is recorded in the shadow of the Watermelon Pink Sandia Mountains near Albuquerque, New Mexico.